 Small - Difficult Room HT Design..lots of ?'s
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 8
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OP
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I have a small upstairs living room that is 12' x 12' with closet computer nook. I am looking for solutions for a 5.1 surround system. I would like to do in-wall speakers + QS4s but cutting the gyproc is not something i want to get into? I am now leaning towards speaker brackets and white speaker wire but my front speaker choices are limited (or are they?)...they have to be relatively small. Anyone use QS4's as fronts as well - see below (want to have a tube amp connected to the fronts as well)?? Back speaker placement should not be a problem other than hiding the speaker wire. The other issue is that I would really like to run my tube amp with the fronts. Thus I am looking for a good quality small speaker. My Totem Rokks are just a tad too big to place in the room (I have 12.5" between the trim on the doors and the ceiling and the Rokks are 16.5" high).
I have a kick ass HT room in the basement with a projector, Rocket Mini fronts, 2 subs, Onix Ref 1.5 rears and Ref 100 centre but I want to buy Canadian from now on....I also want to do a small 5.1 system for the bedroom but I want a system that I will be happy with for some time.
My answer is probably running speaker wire through the roof trusses?
Next question is affordable receivers for these two systems. I have an Outlaw and Emotiva system in the basemet. Looking for relatively inexpensive receiver in bedroom and living room if possible.
Issues:
- small speaker choices - 2 * 5.1 speaker systems
- hide speaker wire
- minimal cutting of gyproc
- 2 affordable receivers
Any ideas, thanks...Sorry for the long first post
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Re: Small - Difficult Room HT Design..lots of ?'s
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
I would suggest the W22s to go with the QS4s and the W100 for a center but you could run 3 W22s across the front or a W2 center, if the room allows for a vertically oriented center. Have you watched the video on how to install the W series? video Any of the usual names, Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha, will work well for that room, so pick one in the price range with the feaures you want and buy it, maybe even look at the refurbished units to save even more. A tube amp should be no problem as the W series is still a sensitive speaker so it takes very little to get good volumes. So far as the wires that is upto you, Axiom has some flat wire that should be great as their regular wire is a bargain considering how fine the strands are. If you want to crawl around in the attic to pull wires go for it.
Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Small - Difficult Room HT Design..lots of ?'s
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 395
devotee
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devotee
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As for QS4s for fronts danmagicman7 did a big review a while back which included a 4 vs 8 as mains faceoff: QS4’s vs. QS8’s
This one was over quick.
I did a direct A/B comparison between the QS4’s and QS8’s playing as “mains” in stereo with no sub on. First, I turned on the QS8’s, which sounded great. Then, I turned on the QS4’s.
They were much quieter. That surprised me. So, I turned up the volume so they were close to what the QS8’s were playing at. To get to that point, they started to sound strained to produce that sound.
That was disappointing. Whatever I did, they just sounded strained and weaker than the QS8’s. I thought there would be a difference, but not such a big one as that. I really couldn’t believe it.
Could it be that since the QS8’s use the same 5.25” woofer as almost all the other speakers in the Axiom lineup, the QS4’s 4 incher got neglected? I was thinking some sort of tonality change would be present, but there is a serious difference between the QS8 and the QS4. The QS4’s are by no means a crappy speaker they perform their quadpolar surround duties well in my experiences, but compared to the QS8’s…they…well…don’t really compare, especially for direct “non surround” sounds.
My reason for buying the QS4’s is that they are small and more easily transportable, which I doubt is reasoning for many other buyers. For such a small difference in price (~$100), I would have a very hard time recommending the QS4 to any buyer, as sad as I am to say it. Were my QS4’s part of a bad batch or something? Who knows. They were just not up to snuff as the QS8’s. I’d like to give a little recommendation to Axiom to perhaps...look over the 4” woofer again or at least the QS4.
For curiosity’s sake, I did a direct comparison between the QS8’s and M22’s…
QS8’s vs. M22’s
Surprisingly, the QS8 and M22 almost sounded exactly the same. Exact same tonal and sound signature. The QS8’s had a little more high end (two tweeters), less low end, and a diffuse sound. The QS8’s actually sounded pretty good as mains!
M80s/VP160/QS8s/EP350; M22s; M3s.
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Re: Small - Difficult Room HT Design..lots of ?'s
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 395
devotee
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devotee
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 395 |
The other issue is that I would really like to run my tube amp with the fronts. Thus I am looking for a good quality small speaker. My Totem Rokks are just a tad too big to place in the room (I have 12.5" between the trim on the doors and the ceiling and the Rokks are 16.5" high).
Are you saying you want to put the mains at 6+ feet high? Are you planning on angling them downward? Just as a note I use M3s for my 'home gym' and I definitely notice a difference when sitting on the bench (tweeters roughly ear level) vs lying on the floor.
M80s/VP160/QS8s/EP350; M22s; M3s.
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Re: Small - Difficult Room HT Design..lots of ?'s
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Oct 2006
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The QS series are designed specifically for surround and rear use and not normally recommended as fronts but I've never tried them that way so who knows. The review above is interesting regarding the QS8s. I'd still probably play it safe and wall mount bookshelves for my mains as it might just bother me mentally even if I couldn't hear the difference. (Ya, I'm like that.)
I currently have a pair of M60 floor standers in a room not a whole lot bigger than that as they await their new home in the dedicated HT room. They do not overpower sound wise or visually. Visually for you would depend on your layout though. Bookshelves might be the answer.
Temporarily removing the baseboard along the floor to hide wire behind might be another option to help with the wiring. There is usually a half inch from the bottom of the drywall to the floor that is perfect for stuffing wires into. Even if you have to trim the drywall, it will be covered when you put the baseboard back.
Last edited by Murph; 04/07/08 12:21 PM.
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
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Re: Small - Difficult Room HT Design..lots of ?'s
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Joined: Apr 2008
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OP
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Thanks for the responses. It is tough for you to picture the room but I have an entrance, stand-up piano and computer nook along one wall, couch along the other wall, patio door facing the interior entrance and finally 2 chairs on the last wall facing the couch. The room is full but I can't do anything about it as it is the only living room I have. I am really limited to small speakers. The arch. series would be great but even the interior walls have insulation so I think anything on the wall is out as It will be difficult to fish wires. I was thinking of in-ceiling speakers but I I have little experience with them. I am leaning towards M2's on brackets, my only issue is hiding speaker wire towards the ceiling.
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Re: Small - Difficult Room HT Design..lots of ?'s
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,898
connoisseur
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connoisseur
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It is tough for you to picture the room... Agreed! Pictures or diagrams always help.  The folks here are pretty innovative once they know what you're working with. If it's not too difficult you might post a pic or two to show what the room looks like.
Epic 80-800: HG Cherry
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Re: Small - Difficult Room HT Design..lots of ?'s
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955 |
I think you are on the right track. Sound aside, ceiling speakers just look so sterile to me. Like a shopping mall or hospital or something. But that's just my personal feeling on their looks.
M2s on brackets would serve you well. With some thought on placement and a nice finish that matches the room, they should be fairly unobtrusive.
Cutting drywall is easier than you think if you decide to go with the W series. Even a rough cut is covered up by the border of whatever you are putting into the hole so it will look like a pro job when you are done, even if you don't have a steady hand.
Also wondering what kind of insulation you have. Fiberglass sheets usually don't pose too much problem for fishing as you can run the fish up along inside of the drywall without much trouble. (unless you have an old fish tape with a bunch of crazy bends in it) Other types of insulation can be tougher to impossible. 'Blown in' is a PitA.'
I know it's a living room but I didn't see mention of a TV. You mentioned you already have a high end HT system elsewhere. Just thinking that if it is just music, perhaps a stereo plus sub arrangement would be much simpler to work out. I really enjoy concert DVDs in 5.1 but with my CD/flac collection I am normally very happy in stereo as I tend to be moving around more during casual listening, so I'd rarely be in the sweet spots for surround listening.
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
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Re: Small - Difficult Room HT Design..lots of ?'s
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Joined: Apr 2008
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I am going to post a picture of the room...I want to hang a 40" TV over the piano on the wall. So I would like to do 5.1 surround. 2.1 would be fine, but..my pic will show my Rokk/tube/CD system which will might to another room. Anyone heard any of the Arch series speakers with a tube amp?
This set up was very very nice for the room. AS such, I really want something I'll be happy with. Much different sounding room than my HT room. I will post a pic of both. I really leaning towards the Archtectural series for the centre and fronts. I think I am going to do QS8's for the backs.
What is the best bang for the buck for sub-$500 receivers? Onkyo/ Pioneer/ Yamaha/ MArantz/ Sherwood....looking for music first HT second.
Lastly, Anyone have experience with Emotiva pre-amps/amps and Axiom products?
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Re: Small - Difficult Room HT Design..lots of ?'s
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Joined: Apr 2008
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OP
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Again, was looking at M2's but I originally wanted teh Arch series...I think I should have too much problem fishing the wires to the front 3 speakers...my nephew is an electrician
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