Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Upgrade...M3 to M22...or M3 and better sub?

Ok...I've got the upgrade bug. As my prior posts have mentioned, I love the sound of my M3's. The addition of the inexpensive Parts Express/Dayton Audio 10" sub has added needed bottom end in my large listening room. Axiom's trade up policy is very tempting. I can't afford floorstanders, but have been thinking about trying a pair of M22's to match up with my Dayton sub. Would the M22's with a sub be a better match in a fairly large room? The reviews are great, but the references to a somewhat thin sound have me concerned. BTW, I'm powering my M3's with an Onkyo A-9555 integrated amp. The M3's are connected to the speaker "A" terminals, while the sub is connected to the speaker "B" terminals. Amp is then set to run with speakers A+B. I did this purposely so the M3's would run full range. The sub's crossover is set relatively low...so it fills in the bottom end, but does not overpower.

Anyway...I would appreciate feedback on recommendations for an upgrade. I'm thinking of either replacing the M3's with M22's, or replacing my $99 Dayton sub with either the entry level Velodyne (VX-10) or the HSU designed Parts Express 10" sub. Any thoughts?

Has anyone owned both M3's and M22's (preferably with a sub)and can offer a comparison? Thanks.

Never owned both but have compared them as I do own the M22s. I wouldn't say the M22s have an advantage it is just a different sound. The M22s are much more forward than the M3s, the vocals and mids stand out from the bass more so than the M3s, making sound clearer or more detailed depending on how you want to describe it, adding a sub to the M22s just fills in the lower end they don't play. I have my M22s as a 2 channel setup and it sounds very good, not thin at all, but I do run the bass boosted by a couple of db and it does give them that warmer feel of the M3s with the extra clarity only the M22s have.

If you truly want better sound, I would save up for the M60 or even a little more for the M80s, both of which work much better for large rooms and have a fuller/richer sound that the M3/sub or M22/sub doesn't have, IMO.

Take Jason's advice and save up for the M80s. I, like Jason, have heard both and find them to sound very detailed. Unlike Jason however, I find that even with a sub, the M22s sound thin.

Well, if it isn't the M80 twins. Howdy boys...

I can't speak to the M3, but the M22 sub is a good combination. I would agree that the M80 is better, but its a close call between the M22 + sub and the M60 floorstander.

I did a/b comparisons between them at Axiom. They are different, but it was hard for me to decide which is better.

For the cost of one way shipping, it would probably be worth it to audition the M22 and send back which ever speaker you like less.

Me? I've been bitten by the M80 bug.

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Once you've heard the 80s, it's tough to like the 60s or the 22s.

IMO, the stand-out Axiom products are the 80s, M3s, EP350v3, QS8s, and audiobytes. Keep in mind that I've listened to all of the above plus the 60s, 22s, EP400, EP600 and VP150.

Oh yeah...almost forgot. The M82s sounded great too .

Tex, you need to buy some M2s just to round out your resume.

Don't forget the M50s!

I would have to add the EP500 stands out a wee bit.

Wait, it's tough to even like them after hearing the M80s? Hyperbole much?

You're right. I should have said "Once I heard the 80s, it was tough to like the 60s or the 22s.".

Well, I just might buy M2s. I'll need a pair of bookshelves in the future and I haven't decided on a company or model. Right now, the audiobytes don't sound too bad for that application.

Me, I'd go with M3s, but I also haven't heard the M2s.

OK...lots of feedback...recommending the M80's I wish I could afford them, but I can't. What has impressed me about the M3's is how big they sound. With the sub even bigger. Well recorded CD's have the dynamics and authority of a much larger speaker. I guess I was wondering if the M22's (being that Axiom rates them for larger rooms than the M3's) might have even more dynamics (i.e., play louder and stay controlled)than the M3's. It sounds like maybe not. I really do love the M3'...just looking for an inexpensive upgrade to hold me over for a while.

The M22s sound very different than the M3s. Throw a blanket over the M22s and that's what the M3s sound like. But that's not necessarily a bad thing . The M22s perform surgery on your cochleas whereas the M3s gently caress them. I could relax to M3s but not M22s. Does that help you?

Axiom should have sound bytes on the site for these two speakers. The difference between them is like night and day.

At your house I did find them thin, in my own environment they sound pretty darn good. I think it is your room causing some issues with them, possibly it is just too open for them or it was just our placement of them at your house.

Rob, you could trade in the M3s and get the M60 or M80s, I know we have been pushing the M80s but if you really want that next step up, you have to go floor stander,IMO. You seem to really like the M3s, I would say the M60s sound is somewhere between the M3s and M80s.

I was a long time user of the M3's and recently got into the M80, till now with all due respect and in my opinion, I still preffer the M3's, I order an stand to place them like 6 inches higher, but honestly if this does not do it for me, I think that I iwll go back to square one...I do not get the M80's to be my liking sound yet, I feel them a little dark sounding in comparison, I like the highs and mid a little forward...

Killer,

I find your comments about the M80s compared to the M3s puzzling. By that, I don't mean to say that I don't believe you. I'd just like to really understand what it is about your environment that makes the M80s sound the way they do.

Have you confirmed that the straps bridge the bottom and top terminals? Have you confirmed that all drivers are indeed working?

I agree with Mojo as you are the first person to claim the M3s are more forward with the mids and highs where as everyone else has it the other way, the M3s are more laid back and the M80s are more forward. It really does sound like there might be something wrong with the M80s

Agreed.

I think Alan should take a field trip down there to check them out .

The description sounds like he is talking about 80's?

Actually, I found the M3s to be a bit stronger (louder?) in the treble than the M80s. See my M3/M50/M80 comparison. Talking with Alan and Adam about it later, we decided that it probably had to do with the fact that the M3 tweeters were higher up than the M80s.

Which is what his problem is, the M3s are higher up by a foot. I wonder if he put the M80s up on some make shift stands, phone books or criss-crossed pieces of wood, if it would help.

Now at Mojo's when we did our big comparison, we had the M3s up on top of the M80s and the M22s on top of the M60s which would put the tweeters close to that 12" mark above the floorstanders for the M3 and the M22s 16-18" above and the only speakers we found to be different from my own testing at my house were my M22s, with that thin sound we have mentioned.

Edited. Posted in wrong thread.

I'm sort of in agreement that while the M22's are highly detailed, they also sound a bit thin. I've got a sub paired with my M22s and found it hard to blend it in to make it not noticeable. If it's crossed over more than 70Hz, it sounds boomy and seems to separate itself, even with the sub's volume turned down. Currently, I have it set at 65Hz with the volume about a third of the way up. I'm satisfied with the sound, but I can still tell a subwoofer is involved, whereas my M60s/sub combo blends together perfectly. Perhaps, it's my Yamaha sub which simply might not be a good match with the M22s.

I also own Ascend CBM-170s which I think have a fuller sound, but they aren't quite as detailed as the M22s. They also have a slight different sound signature than the Axioms. Currently, I'm using the M22/sub combo, but haven't given up on the Ascends yet. But, since I like the Axiom sound so much, I also can't help wondering the if M3s could actually offer the best of both worlds.

Mary,

That's exactly how I felt when I listened to the 22s paired with the 600.

The M3s will not give you the detailed sound that you've grown accustomed to with your M22s. Throw a thin blanket over your M22s and you can get an idea what the M3s will sound like. I find the audiobytes to be the perfect blend of the M22s and the M3s.

I'd say 60s would be the ones for you, Mary.

60's? No, she is used to the detail, Mary needs the M80s.

Mary have you tried boosting the bass on your receiver by about 3-4 db(the M3 FR curve is about this much), or you could move the M22s closer to the wall to help re-enforce the bass from the port; maybe even try both. It may help the sub blend better and make the M22s not sound thin.

Actually, I already own the 60's, but I desperately want to trade up to the 80's!

Anyway, the M22s are in my bedroom powered by a small Rotel integrated amp. It doesn't have it's own sub levels. The sub is already pretty close to the wall. If I move it out further into the room, it's pretty non-existent. Like I said, I'm satisfied with the sound, but it's not perfect. The sub is tiny with only an 8" woofer, but I'm afraid that a bigger sub would sound even worse.

Just don't tell Jack you're desperate. He's liable to show up at your house dressed as an M80.

Imagine the Fox with 80's, the quad cities would be rockin.

Well, if he could perform as well as the 80s...

That's funny right there...I don't care who you are....

I dunno. This guy seems pretty humorless.

I started this thread debating the idea of upgrading from M3's to M22's. I received the M22's last week and prefer their sound in my system. Good recordings sound great...poor recordings sound poor. They are not a speaker to make a poor recording sound "okay." The sound, though, on good recordings is so good that I will continue to search out good recordings to play on them.

The M22's mate well with my Dayton Audio 10" sub. I have the M22's connected to the speaker "A" terminals of my Onkyo A9555 integrated amp. The sub is connected to the speaker "B" terminals of the amp with the subs crossover set relatively low...probably around 60 hertz. I then run the amp with speakers A + B. I emailed Doug Schneider of the Soundstage web site and told him of this setup. He commented that my sub setup was less than ideal. It maybe goes against convention, but I like the sound of letting the M22's run full range (no cutoff)and have the sub fill in just the lower registers. It sounds great.

As long as you like the sound that is all that matters. I personally like the M22 running full range as well, it seems to prevent that thin sound the M22s are mentioned as having.