Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Hello! Upgrading the HT, few questions

Hello all! First time poster, been lurking in the darkness a few weeks while doing my initial round of research. I have to say I'm pretty much sold on Axiom now, this community, and the wonderful customer service experiences I've read about really made the choice easy. Not to mention the fact I'm sure I'll love the speakers

I'm a computer programmer by day, I'd have to say I'm pretty savvy when it comes to building custom PCs, I've also done a decent amount of work with HTPCs. I would like my computer to play an integral part in all of this, since it is the piece of equipment I will use the most. I would not consider myself an audio/videophile by any means, although I am learning more every day, and will definitely be able to appreciate higher quality hardware.

This system will be a major upgrade for me, been saving for quiet a while and have set the total budget somewhere in the neighborhood of $12K US. This needs to include the speakers, receiver, projector (mount and screen I have), blackout window blinds and all the associated cabling. Luckily I have two things going for me, a decent job, and no wife Unfortunately I am renting this house, and don't want to do any serious modifications to the walls/ceiling other than mounting a few things. I will using this system for gaming (PC/Xbox/PS3), movies and music, likely in equal proportions.

Here's a pic of the room and my initial estimation of the layout with dimensions: http://www.theconfuzion.com/AV.jpg (400 square, 3100 cubic). The right side of the room opens up in to the kitchen, and dining room. No doors, it's all pretty open. I can post a few pics later if it'll matter. Feel free to comment on the layout, still a bit of a newbie at this!

This is what I'm after:
1. Speakers
- M80 fronts
- VP150 center
- 4xQS8s surrounds
- 2xEP350 subs (still unsure about this)
2. Video
- Epson 1080p projector
- Samsung 46" LCD (have)
3. Components
- Denon 3808
- APC Power Conditioner
- CD/DVD player?

And here are my questions:

1. Subs. I don't really need something that will bring the house down, the 500 and 600s scare me I read a bit about how the 350v3s are more musical, and that two will help even things out, this seems more important to me than something that will ensure my cats never leave the closet and make my neighbors hate me. Suggestions are welcome Also, is there any benefit to chaining two subs together vs using a Y cable?

2. Center(s). Read a bit about dual M22s as centers, wondering if this is worthwhile? I would probably be able to mount one above and below the screen, however the bottom one would likely be a foot in front of the top. I've also read that people with larger rooms than mine are perfectly happy with the VP150. I think the VP150 will be mounted nicely behind the center of the screen (maybe a foot higher).

3. Receiver. Seems the 3808 is a very popular choice. I considered the 4308, mostly because I need two HDMI outputs for the TV + projector. The wifi isn't necessary since it'll be sitting in a rack right next to my router. I think a $100 splitter/amplifier will do the trick as opposed to the $1000 difference in price between the 3808 and 4308. I'm guessing you all agree.

4. Blackout shades. I need roller shades to cover my windows (there are 4 windows in this room, which is way too much light). Curtains came with the house, they look nice but don't do the job. I'm thinking of these http://www.justblinds.com/dynamic/product.cfm?productID=84

5. PS3 for DVDs and CDs. Is there any reason to buy a nice DVD/CD player (like an Oppo) if I have a PS3? I'm guessing the difference isn't spectacular.

6. Speaker stands vs wall/ceiling mounts for surrounds. I'm leaning towards stands, simply because it'll give me more flexibility to change stuff around, especially if I move in the future. I know for sure I won't be able to wall mount one of the surrounds, and the fewer holes I put in the walls the better. I'm also wondering if stability is an issue with the QS stands, I'm guessing I can fill them with sand or some such to help with this. In any case, they will be up against a wall, and I won't have kids running around, so I'm not really concerned.

Phew, that's a big wall of text. Thanks everyone, I'm sure I'll be back with more questions later

Jared

P.S. If this belongs in the HT forums let me know, I'll move it over. I'm mostly after feedback from owners, so I figured this was the place to be.

Hi Jared and welcome!

1) Subs - I have 2 EP500s in a 16'x18.5 ft room and they are set at 6:30pm (maybe 25%). I think 2 EP350's would be just fine. I split mine with a Y adapter right out of the receiver.

2) Center - After tweaking my VP150, I would find it respectable. How big is your projector screen? Mine is 126" and I'm considering adding a second VP150.

3) Receiver - I have the older 3806... GREAT CHOICE. Nothing but good things to say about it (well, except Denon customer support).

4) Blackout shades - No comment. I have no windows in my theater.

5) DVD/CD - I have both an X-Box 360 and a Denon DVD-2930ci in my theater. I can definitely see a difference with the picture, but not so much with the sound. The benefit of the Denon is that it allows me to play SACD and DVD-A (I'm not sure if the PS3 can do that). The minus of my Denon is some tracking problems (coupled with poor customer support). If you just want to play regular CDs, I don't think you would hear much of a difference. If you want a sharper image, and SACD and DVD-A support, a dedicated player is the way to go.

6) Stands/Wall Mounts - I used the flush mounts that came with the QS8s and they work wonderfully. If you move, spackle and paint are your friends!

I hope you decide to go through with it. I have most of the parts you suggested, and I love my system!

-Steve

Hi Jared,

Welcome. Exciting project!

I'm guessing you're going to use a perforated screen? Many people see that approach as a compromise of both audio and video fidelity.

I think that speaker package (including the subs) would be amazing. You could always just get one sub (either the 350 or 500) and see whether you think you need more. Multiple subs do seem to be quite a trend lately, though. The new 350 seems to be very well received. I don't think it matters if you use a Y-splitter or daisy-chain them; either way, you are reducing the impedance of the input by half. I wouldn't worry.

If you're thinking of using dual bookshelf center channels (M2, M3, M22), you'd want to have them oriented vertically. Personally, I think you'd be fine with a VP150, especially since you do have some limitations regarding being a renter.

I'd definitely get the Denon 3808 and a HDMI switcher. No brainer to me.

I think the separate player issue probably boils down to user interface as much as fidelity. By all accounts, the PS3 is a great Blu-Ray player. Randy (sirquack) has all his media running through a HTPC. When I tried that method, I became frustrated by all the different pieces of software, hardware and remotes that I had to coordinate. For me, the Oppo DVD player was a great and simple solution.

I'd try hard to just put the QS8's on the walls.

I would also budget whatever you think is necessary for an elegant system remote (URC or Harmony or whatever). That can be a huge benefit or a huge frustration. Unless they've really changed, don't even consider the notion of the Denon remote as a sole solution.

There are not many board regulars who will advise you to spend significant money on cable upgrades. Some will disagree, but my opinion is that "copper is copper" and Monoprice is a good vendor.

Good luck. Enjoy the journey!

I am just going to add you should give 6ave.com a call and mention that there is/was a deal on the Denons. You have to call them as online only shows retail prices. I know the 3808 was being sold for $1100 and seem to remember someone getting the 4308 for ~$1800, IIRC.

My brother in-law just got the 3808 on special last Fri. for $1099 shipped, so that deal is still on if you call and ask for it.

Awesome guys, thanks. I did read about the deal on the Denon in several other threads, I fully intend on taking advantage of that one! The 4308 at $1800 is tempting, but I think I agree that the differences really don't justify paying 40% more.

Over the weekend I bought a Harmony One remote at Frys, which I have since fallen in love with. I haven't quiet worked the kinks out of using it with my PC but that just takes a bit of time and fiddling.

I have been doing some research regarding my current projection screen (a Gray Wolf 106") and have seen some disappointing reviews. Right now I have an old(ish) Infocus X1 and this screen helps a bit considering the ambient light problems I've had since moving into this house, but I haven't had much chance to compare it to anything aside from a white wall. I will say that when I ceiling mounted my projector I noticed things got a lot dimmer, I saw the same reported by a lot of people on avsforums.

It does seem as though I will need to mount the VP150 below my TV/screen since (as tomtuttle pointed out) I'd need a perforated screen to maintain acoustic transparency. And since I'm up against my fire place (that I never use) I can't wall-mount a fixed screen or use any acoustically transparent screens that won't (from what I've read) reduce the video quality. Since I got the gray wolf for free from a friend, I'm going to keep it for now and see how it performs with the 1080UB. I plan on getting the speakers & components setup before upgrading the projector...that will be the last piece of the puzzle. If any of you have recommendations for ceiling mounted screens for the 1080UB I'm all ears.

As far as cables, thanks for the monoprice suggestion tomtuttle. I'm checking out their prices and think that'll definitely knock a few hundred dollars off the bottom line. I was looking at blue jeans cable earlier, but it seems monoprice has them beat by a good bit. I had initially done some searching for 30-40' HDMI cables and saw prices upwards of $700, I almost cried!

Quick question...is there any difference between a "1.3a certified" HDMI cable, and one of their regular 22 gauge HDMI cables? I have definitely noticed that there are way too many smoke and mirror acts when it comes to cabling.

Thanks again guys, and just to reiterate, this kind of supportive community is definitely one of the main reasons I'm going with Axiom

Jared,

I'm a bit short on time right now but thought that I'd at least post briefly that I have darn near your exact setup. I have the Epic 80:600 7.1. Also have the Denon 3808 and the Epson 1080 UB Pro. My signature has a link to a few pictures of my home theater build, where you can see the wall mounts and ceiling mount of the VP150 over the 92" Elite fixed mount screen.

On cables, I did splurge a bit on bluejeans' best HDMI cable as I had an especially long run and have always have fantastic service from them (it's hard to find a lot of cables that will go 40+' and Blue Jeans guaranteed that theirs would). For all the rest of the cables I went with Monoprice and saved a ton of money.

For blackout shades, I think you'll find that you need both a roll down curtain as well as drapes to cover them if you want true blackout. I used that combination in my theater (check the pictures). Both the shades and drapes are from Bed Bath & Beyond and I can probably dig up the specific item #s if you're interested based on the pictures. With only one or the other I had a lot of light seeping in. With both, I can get it nearly pitch black in the middle of the day.

To your PS3 question, use it and never look back. It is an absolutely amazing machine and is constantly updating itself to the latest formats via firmware updates. I can't image ever buying a DVD player that didn't have this feature after seeing all that the PS3 is doing to stay at the top of the pile. The image is absolutely stunning.

For your screen choices... I really have been happy with my Elite Screen (92" Cinema White, it looks brilliant, pun intended, with the 1080UB). The screen was inexpensive and has performed admirably for me in my theater. My brother has the wall mounted motorized pull down version (100") and is also very happy with it.

Wall mounts... I'd try to get them on the walls as I really like the way they sound higher than what you can put them on a stand. Others in the past seem generally to have agreed on that point as well. They just sound a little more spacious and enveloping when put at 5' or 6' (mine are at 7.5'). Any stand you get that is that tall is going to be begging to be knocked over on a daily basis.

Turns out that wasn't such a short post at all. Happy shopping, you're going to love the Axiom set you've got picked out.

Jason

Excellent, thanks a bunch. I think I agree on the cables, I'll go Blue Jeans for the long HDMI and Monoprice for the rest. Of all the cables I'll get that one's probably worth putting a little extra into.

As for shades, I just placed an order for rollers from justblinds.com. I'm going to try them out before I make the projector plunge and see if I'll need to upgrade the drapes as well. The ones that came with the house are very transparent, but the windows are nicely recessed and have enough space on the sides that the rollers should be able to at least cover the entire window with a few inches of extra coverage on each side.

Thanks for the advice on the PS3. I bought one of the release 60 gigs and all my friends laughed at me, now that bluray has won the format war I think the tables may have turned.

As for mounting the QS8s on the walls, I'm still waffling. My main problem will be that the two side surrounds won't be on walls, one needs to be over/in front of a 34" counter, and the other is right smack in front of a window. I'm thinking about moving them back so I can at least put the left surround on the wall, but there's no way I'll get the right one up high unless I use a short-ish mount standing on the counter. I can put the rear surrounds on the wall, up 6-7 feet, aesthetically not as pleasing since the wire would be exposed. Flat wire or white shrouded wire would be alright I guess. I am worried that the flat wire's adhesive will do some damage when I have to tear it down when I move.

And oh my, let me say that that HG Cherry you have there is amazing! I wish they'd run another promo on that stuff, I'd be all over it. Is that the 1080UB Pro I spy there? What was your reasoning for choosing that over the standard version?

On the QS8's, if you can't get them up on the walls, don't stress out too much about it. They are really flexible speakers and you'll be happy with them in the other scenarios too. I remember being where you are and obsessing about every detail, so if I'm contributing to your high blood pressure with my wall mount recommendations, please don't let me.

Thanks for the comments on the HG Cherry, I love it too. WAF through the roof on those.

On the 1080, yes, I have the pro version. Short answer is that I got a very good deal on it. It ended up costing me about 3k less a $200 rebate from Epson. Unfortunately, it's a deal that's long gone, but at the time it made it a no brainer for me as I needed the ceiling mount it came with, wanted the extra year warranty, and the extra bulb was just gravy on top of the rest.

I have pulled the proverbial trigger on the above system, minus the projector. I actually went with Blue Jeans for most of the cables, there were a few things I couldn't seem to find at Monoprice, and BJs is local. I did get the stands, mostly because I may very well need them in my next dwelling, even if I only use one set for now I think they may come in handy.

Thanks all for the advice, I'll keep you all posted on my progress. The wait begins! Now to clean up and start organizing furniture, oh boy. Also wondering if I should pay a professional to come calibrate everything. I figure it's probably worth the price considering the investment and my relative noobery with all of this, especially if I spring for a new projector.