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#208460 - 05/18/08 12:05 AM Location, Location , Location
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Now that I am done with the what, I need to figure out the where and a few other things.

The mains will be about 9' apart and will be about 8' from the listening position. I will be using M2s above and below the display for centers. The only real where questions I have are the surrounds and the sub. I figure I'll crawl to figure out the sub, though I will be limited in choices.

But where to put the surrounds? I suspect the best choice will be cieling mounted, but where should they be in relation to the listening position? I am thinking two feet in front of the listening position, but how far to the side can I go? They will be less intrusive If I can put them up high on the side walls, but I don't know if that is too far out.

Here's an almost to-scale drawing:


The only other thing I am pondering is echos. This is a concrete construction apartment and there is a fair amount of reflective surface in teh living room. I did the clap test in my bedroom and got three distinct echos plus a lingering ring. Ouch! There are no obvious echos like that in the livingroom thank goodness, but you can still hear some general reflected noise after the clap.

Curtains in front of the balcony window (not up yet) will help, and I am thinking an area rug may help cieling/floor reflections.

Now?
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Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#208464 - 05/18/08 01:23 AM Re: Location, Location , Location [Re: fredk]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4870
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
I think it is typically best to put the surrounds even with the listening position or a little behind, not in front.
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-David

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#208466 - 05/18/08 02:45 AM Re: Location, Location , Location [Re: fredk]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10621
Fred, as David pointed out, if possible the side surrounds should be no farther forward than even with the listening position. In a 5.1 setup without actual back surrounds to help the total surround effect it's helpful to position the side surrounds a little(maybe 2')farther back than even, to lend a little more effect with a "phantom" back center image.

Calibration of the levels and delays can compensate for the position of the surrounds.
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#208468 - 05/18/08 09:46 AM Re: Location, Location , Location [Re: JohnK]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18044
Loc: NoVA
As someone who has his surrounds in front of the listening position, don't do that unless you have to. It works out OK with the Qs, but it would be better to have them even or behind you.
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#208486 - 05/18/08 02:20 PM Re: Location, Location , Location [Re: Ken.C]
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1852
Loc: PA
I'll second that. Mine were behind in the old house, and in front in our new one. The surround was better in the old house.

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#208492 - 05/18/08 03:47 PM Re: Location, Location , Location [Re: Zarak]
anthony11 Offline
local

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 274
Loc: Portland OR
I haven't come across any definitive answer to whether the surrounds in a 5.1 setup should be *facing* forward, sideways, or toward the listener. Is it a "whatever sounds best" thing?

My room is about 15x20, with the TV and mains toward one of the 12' ends and the seating at the other 12' end. There's a wide-ish doorless opening on one 20' side and tall/wide glass on the other. The ceiling has a 12' barrel vault over the rear 3/4. I'm trying to figure out if I should mount QS8's in the small part of the 20' wall facing sideways, on the 12' back wall facing forward, or in the rear corners facing the seating. I can move the seating forward a bit, but probably not more than 2-3'.



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#208497 - 05/18/08 09:23 PM Re: Location, Location , Location [Re: anthony11]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10621
Anthony, since you refer to 12' ends, I assume that you meant that the room is 12x20. It would be better to move the seating at least 3' forward. You'll not be able to have more than about 10' of separation of the mains and a good rule is to not have the seating much farther away than the separation. Mount the QS8s on the side walls about 3' above ear level, with the left QS8 at the back edge of the glass and the right one directly opposite. This should put them maybe 2' farther back than the listening position.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#208499 - 05/18/08 10:19 PM Re: Location, Location , Location [Re: JohnK]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4870
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
When I auditioned an axiom epic 80/600 5.1 system The owner had the surrounds on stands and they were to the sides, facing in toward the couch.

The owner rotated the surrounds facing forward to mimic my future set up, and I could not really tell a difference.

FYI, My couch is against the back wall so my 5.1 surrounds are on the back wall facing forward, spread out about as far as they can be.
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-David

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#208501 - 05/18/08 11:52 PM Re: Location, Location , Location [Re: terzaghi]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Ahhh, back from a day of wine tasting.

Thanks for the replies gents. If I put them on the side walls even with the listening position, then the rear firing drivers will be facing into the hallway and dining area respectively. I didn't think this would be ideal.

As you can see, putting them on the wall behind the couch is a bit of a challenge as the couch extends out past the wall on the dining room side. I would also have to put the one on the right side over top of the shelf so that the down facing driver is firing into the top of the bookshelf.

I guess I could put one over the bookself and the other mounted from the cieling in the open area facing forward.

Does that last option look like my best bet?
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#208503 - 05/19/08 01:58 AM Re: Location, Location , Location [Re: JohnK]
anthony11 Offline
local

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 274
Loc: Portland OR
 Originally Posted By: JohnK
Anthony, since you refer to 12' ends, I assume that you meant that the room is 12x20.

I started writing that thinking that it was 12' wide then measured and found that it's more like 14-15' wide, just didn't correct properly.
 Quote:
It would be better to move the seating at least 3' forward. You'll not be able to have more than about 10' of separation of the mains and a good rule is to not have the seating much farther away than the separation.

I figure I won't want the mains right against the walls, but could probably swing 12' separation.
 Quote:
Mount the QS8s on the side walls about 3' above ear level, with the left QS8 at the back edge of the glass and the right one directly opposite. This should put them maybe 2' farther back than the listening position.

That's about what I've been planning. I'd really hoped to get away with using stands, but it seems to be agreed that having them higher is better.

Actual photos (well, of the mirror-image neighbor) are here: www.magnolialofts.com Look at the photo gallery, #7-12 or so.

I have license to move the couches slightly forward from the back wall, but probably can't get more than a couple of feet.

I'm also trying to figure out what to do with the center. Presuming a VP150, I could put it on a shelf on top of the 61" DLP or on the stand under it, though if I replace my 2-channel Sony with the beloved Denon 3808, room down there will be tight. The other option would be to place it on a stand in front of the TV/TV stand. I could site the electronics on the shelf stands such that the stand didn't block the remotes, and could have the center higher than the stand shelves, basically in front of the TV's built-in speakers (Samsung DLP, speakers along the bottom). That might not look great, though, given the depth of the VP150. Yes, I know, better yet would be to get *2* VP150's and have one up and one down, havin' that Denon driving 3ohms on the center channel, but that would likely fail WAF.




Edited by anthony11 (05/19/08 02:06 AM)

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