Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Strata Mini's -vs- M80's

I'm sure like all electronics things will wear out over time. One of the ones I was looking at had been pro-actively maintenanced. I wouldn't really be looking for a project receiver - would rather save up my pennies and pay a little extra for someone else's hard work to just enjoy the music.

-Nick

You may want to try a lower crossover setting. For example, set your mains on large and then turn the crossover on the sub down to 60hz

I have found crossing at 80hz is too high for my tastes because as you say you can start to hear the voices through the subwoofer. It may be ok for movies but for music It does seem to take away.


Also, The Sansui 9090 is at the age where it would be a good idea to have a thourough going through which involves replacing all of the electrolytic capacitors, Rebiasing, Adjusting the DC offset, cleaning all the switches and pots and if need be replacing any other components that are failing. One of the best people I know of to do such a task goes by the name of "Echowars" on the Audiokarma forums, Glenn knows his stuff and I think he might even live in MI.

Personally I would not reccomend that particular reciever for the M80's

And even if you do go with the M80 I think you'll still find them lacking without the subwoofer once you try them with it. At least I do. And I used to think they were perfectly sufficient in the bass region for a number of years.. Until I tried with a good sub.

Isn't that always the case, ignorance is bliss, you don't know what you're missing, etc........

I have yet to hear a setup that didn't sound better with a sub, at least to me.

I find it depends very much on the music. For some songs, I can't tell the difference with or without sub.

As part of my experimentation, I have moved down to 60hz. I also set the 500 to 'half' from 'flat'. It's definitely improved the overall 2.1 sound experience but it still feels like it could be better. The best analogy I can come up with is the 60's on their own feel like layers...you can actually 'see' the music rising in pitch (or whatever). Highs are high and on down from there. The lows are correct in that setup but they just don't have the strength of other. When you bring the 500 in that problem is of course solved, but the lows don't 'fit' anymore. They just seem to warm the whole picture.

The unknown factor is what slipping in and out of pure direct mode is doing. I will say that if you disconnect the sub and A/B the two modes I can tell a difference anyway. Unfortunately I can't use 'pure direct' and keep the sub (yamaha limitation). That's part of the reason for the interest in a stereo receiver.

The specific receiver I was looking at has had all that work done to it. It's interesting you wouldn't recommend that receiver though. Any particular reason? Any others you would suggest? I'm all ears people :-)

-Nick

If your looking to stay in that era there are no others I can suggest as I am not familiar with all of whats available, although I am pretty familiar with the sansui. I just think that if you want to get the most out of the speakers you would be better off getting a good power amp vs that reciever. Not to say that its amplifier section is any less powerful than those of today's recievers. Infact im quite sure the opposite if probably true. But I dont believe it can match that of a good power amp.

Is it possible that it is that particular sub? I know that in comparisons between the EP600 and the PB13 ultra, the 600 is described as having a warmer, softer sound. I wonder if this is the low end distortion creeping in and colouring things (runs and hides under nearest chair).

I can't say that I notice any colouration with the EP350. In fact, I was surprised that I did not need to make any effort to blend in the 350. However, it does not use DSP and does not go nearly as low as the EP500.

Anything is possible, but I'd wager on me using stupid placement or not doing a good job calibrating before I blamed the sub.

As far as the receiver goes - the more I think about it, the more likely I'll go with an outlaw. I'm a pretty low maintenance guy and pseudo retro implies less headaches.

Anyone have a nice thorough (yet understandable) explanation as to what a power amp is supposed to do other than make music louder? Does a good power amp make the actual receiver less important? I've been resisting the idea of separate gear so I've never researched this at all. I'll dig around myself (there's probably even an article at axiom?) but wondered if someone had a quick easy link.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Setup was the other thing I wondered about. I have been reading in the REW forum at hometheatershack.com a lot. There is quite a bit that can be done to improve in room response for bass.

On the amp question, the amp is there to provide enough power to deliver nice clean, unclipped sound. Too much power is better than not enough power. There are a couple of good articles in the newsletter/learning section of this site.

Nick, that's it: an amplifier, whether it's in a receiver or a separate unit, only has the job of increasing the incoming voltage(a gain of typically about 29dB, which is about 30 times)so that it's high enough to drive the speakers to an audible level. Competently designed units, which are available at quite low cost these days, don't add audible coloration, they just make things louder. The typical moderate cost receiver with a power rating somewhere in the 100 watt area not only handles the 1 watt or so used at an average loud listening level well, but for the vast majority of uses has plenty of headroom to handle brief peaks. Nothing more is required for transparent amplification.