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Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
#229069 11/09/08 12:29 AM
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Its been awhile since I've checked in on these forums, been pretty busy.. I'm a little out of the loop on everything. Most everyone made or planning on making the jump to Blu-Ray this holiday season? I'm really considering, there's some sweet titles I'm wanting to pick up (mostly ironman).
I was one of the people that jumped on the 99 dollar wal-mart toshiba HD-DVD deal, and have enjoyed it quite a bit, however I can't get any new titles for that anymore.

So what are the cost friendly favorite Blu-Ray players out right now? I'd like to find one that plays nice with my Yamaha RX-V661 receiver.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
gmorf33 #229073 11/09/08 12:40 AM
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Hey, I was one of those HD-A2 buyers last year too.

This year, you can always go for the PS3.

For me I just grabbed a new model from Sony, the BDP-S550. It has analog outputs so that I can have HD audio without having to upgrade my receiver to handle HDMI audio.

If you don't need analog audio (your Yamaha looks like it has HDMI ports, but I don't know their abilities), and you don't want a gaming system like the PS3, you can go with the Sony BDP-S350. I know that K-Mart of all places is going to have that one for $179 on Thanksgiving day.

You can get all of the Sony ones from SonyStyle.com and if you apply for (and use) a new Sony credit card, you get $150 back off of your first purchase from them.

Another popular stand-alone player is the Panasonic DMP-BD55.

All of the above get good reviews, it just depends on what features you need/want. Like I said, I needed something that could decode ALL of the HD audio formats and send them to my receiver via analog audio connections, and the first good player to do that (for a reasonable price) was the BDP-S550. If you want games, go for the PS3, etc...

Hope this helps to trim your list down...


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
gmorf33 #229075 11/09/08 12:41 AM
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ps3! :-)

I've heard that the sony bdp-350 is really nice.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
LRA #229093 11/09/08 04:32 AM
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Cool, thanks for the suggestions. I've heard the PS3 is the best deal and from what I saw over the course of the last year, it was.. however I rarely play console video games (or have any interest too, i'm a PC gamer), so I'm thinking something else a little cheaper/more features might be a better choice. This gives me somewhere to start.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
gmorf33 #229096 11/09/08 04:44 AM
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Not me. To hell with all the different formats. When I can't use my Toshiba for upscaling any more I might, that's a big might, look into one.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
gmorf33 #229097 11/09/08 04:50 AM
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GM, since the HDMI input on your 661 does in fact process the audio, the Sony 350 would be suitable, especially if you got a deal like the one Nick mentioned.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
JohnK #229138 11/09/08 06:06 PM
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Does the 350 decode and output M-PCM? The Yamaha 661 does not decode the formats, but will accept M-PCM.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
michael_d #229139 11/09/08 06:14 PM
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It looks like it decodes Dolby TrueHD but only bitstreams DTS HD.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
CV #229154 11/09/08 11:30 PM
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That's cute, there's still PC-only gamers? *squeezes his cheeks*

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
StuntGibbon #229157 11/09/08 11:43 PM
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Thbbt.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
Ken.C #229164 11/10/08 12:27 AM
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As much as I do not like the PS3 for gaming, the PS3 offers great value. PS3 would be my choice. ( Personally I do not feel the need for a Blu-ray just yet)


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
StuntGibbon #229165 11/10/08 12:34 AM
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 Originally Posted By: StuntGibbon
That's cute, there's still PC-only gamers? *squeezes his cheeks*


heh, yeah. really the only game i play or have time to play is Word of Warcrack.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
gmorf33 #229166 11/10/08 12:36 AM
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Well, when you get your PS3 don't miss Uncharted or Ratchet and Clank.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
StuntGibbon #229168 11/10/08 12:43 AM
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I was very pleasantly surprised by Uncharted.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
St_PatGuy #229180 11/10/08 01:58 AM
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The PS3 is great for non-gaming reasons as well. It offers network streaming of any picture, video, or music file on any networked computer in your house. Much as I'd like to, I have played almost no games since buying the PS3, but I do use the streaming feature at least weekly to show family photos or videos, or to stream my digital music collection to my main Axiom setup (or to do both at the same time, family picture slideshow with streaming audio at the same time).

If you can find a decent price on it this holiday season, I'd definitely keep it near the top of your list, even if you'll never play a game on it in your life. (and you never know, you might surprise yourself once you have the option) ;\)

Jason


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday
gmorf33 #229262 11/10/08 08:15 AM
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 Originally Posted By: gmorf33
Cool, thanks for the suggestions. I've heard the PS3 is the best deal and from what I saw over the course of the last year, it was.. however I rarely play console video games (or have any interest too, i'm a PC gamer), so I'm thinking something else a little cheaper/more features might be a better choice. This gives me somewhere to start.


More features then the PS3? Is that possible?

CD playback
DVD playback (uprezed)
SACD playback (via HDMI)
Blu-Ray playback
Games once you try Rockband with friends, you'll be hooked.
Wi-Fi connect to your PC wirelessly and playback/view all your...
MP3
Photos

What feature are you missing?

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday
spiffnme #229277 11/10/08 02:41 PM
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Good points. Even if you don't play console games, the streaming ability to the PS3 is nice if you have HDMI audio capabilities.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
gmorf33 #229288 11/10/08 04:14 PM
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Hi Gmorf,

My Axiom colleague, JC (Jean-Claude) recently acquired the Panasonic Blu-ray DMP-BD55, and he seems thrilled with its audio and video performance. I don't know how price-friendly the BD-55 is, but prices have certainly come down and Panasonic is very competitive in the marketplace. JC previously used Playstation 3 for Blu-ray playback.

He also told me that the Panasonic BD-55's upscaling of standard DVD is quite superior to the Oppo he'd used previously.

Regards,
Alan


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
alan #229293 11/10/08 04:55 PM
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I'm curious to know what the DMP-BD55 does or does better than the PS3 he was using.

If the video upscaling of 480i DVD is the big item, I intend (if it ever is released!) in getting the R-972, which from my understanding would handle all the video uprezing, and should do a dang fine job of it.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
spiffnme #229294 11/10/08 05:01 PM
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Has anyone tried the Samsung BD???? that does streaming 1080p from netflix?


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
SirQuack #229296 11/10/08 06:07 PM
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As a follow-up to Alan's comments and JC's experience, a couple of weeks a go I purchased the Panasonic BD-55($399.00) and I couldn't be happier. I can't comment on the comparison to the PS3, but it is interesting to note, I went in to the store with my heart kind of set on buying the Pioneer Elite 05FD ($899.00!!). This was before I read the less than spectacular dual reviews on this unit which made me feel that much better about my purchase. When I compared them both in the store, the Pioneer was, of course, a terrific looking and rather LARGE unit, but I chose to look past that and decided to strictly compare performance.

The 05FD was considerably slower loading than the BD-55 and it had problems connecting to the television(handshake) via the receiver. This has been a problem which has not gone unnoticed in the reviews. The Panasonic has all the latest internal decoding, 7.1 outputs and it has a unique option of directing the back channels to convert to front left/right analog channels and use 5.1,only, if you wish that option. It has been stated in reviews of the BD-55 that, compared to previous BD players to date, it has the best scaling and playback of standard DVD's and I couldn't agree more. The Panny has the latest 2.0 profile which allows you to access all the BD Live features(if you want that), whereas the 05FD is only 1.1! I was surprised and somewhat disappointed, to see a unit, especially at the Pioneer's price point, that does not contain all the latest features. (As a side note, if you don't need the 7.1 outputs and analog option, you can get the BD-35 for about 100 bucks less).

The newer generations of units with all the mainstream companies are coming fast and furious onto the market with lower and lower price points, however, The BD-55/35, at least at this point, provides all the features you will need for the foreseeable future.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
casey01 #229311 11/10/08 08:20 PM
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Hi casey,

Thanks for your detailed and careful comparison of the Panasonic and Pioneer players.

Regards,
Alan


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
SirQuack #229318 11/10/08 08:55 PM
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 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Has anyone tried the Samsung BD???? that does streaming 1080p from netflix?


I don't have the one that can stream netflix (yet, anyway). I have the older model 1400 and it's a fine machine. Never had a problem with any of the discs! One or two movies required FW upgrades, but that's almost the norm for BD. Well, not so much lately, but 2-6 months ago, the FW's were required about every six weeks or so.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
spiffnme #229322 11/10/08 09:30 PM
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Hi Spiff,

Here's what JC says about the BD55 compared to his PS3:

"Reproduction of Blu-ray DVDs is better; color saturation - details. Reproduction of standard DVDs is also better even better than the Oppo 970.

PS3 has no analog outputs and the built-in decoder of the BD-55 gives out a phenomenal sound from the latest codecs. This last feature really was a "must" for my setup."

Alan


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
casey01 #229348 11/11/08 12:27 AM
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 Originally Posted By: casey01
As a follow-up to Alan's comments and JC's experience, a couple of weeks a go I purchased the Panasonic BD-55($399.00) and I couldn't be happier.

Same here. I'm a little dismayed to find that Amazon has the BD55 for $338 right now. I paid nearly $100 more (including tax) just a few weeks ago. However, I'm very happy with the player. If one has an HDMI receiver capable of decoding the sound formats, you get virtually the same performance from the Panasonic DMP-BD35 which Amazon has for $263.


Jack

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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
alan #229351 11/11/08 12:37 AM
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Alan:

Thank you for the kind words regarding my Panasonic BD-55 review, however, I do have one question for any and all that have Blu-Ray players. One quirk that I did notice with the player which came as a surprise was that you CANNOT use the stop/resume feature on many BD discs. It just will go right back to the beginning, either re-loading OR go back in to the menu. I E-mailed Panasonic's technical department about this and they advised that this was a disc feature and not a defect with the player which I verified since it works fine on standard DVD's. I always thought this was a player function. Not so.
This is something I have never seen on any reviews or commented on in any of the forums.

Any thoughts on this?

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
casey01 #229387 11/11/08 04:16 AM
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That seems to be the case all around the Blu-Ray world. Seems like such a simple thing, but I guess not...


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
nickbuol #229431 11/11/08 02:07 PM
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For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure the PS3 added this capability in a firmware update a few (maybe 6?) months ago. Every time I've tried it, it has worked, but it could be that I just haven't tried it on incompatible Blu-Rays.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
casey01 #229433 11/11/08 02:38 PM
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 Originally Posted By: casey01
Alan:

Thank you for the kind words regarding my Panasonic BD-55 review, however, I do have one question for any and all that have Blu-Ray players. One quirk that I did notice with the player which came as a surprise was that you CANNOT use the stop/resume feature on many BD discs. It just will go right back to the beginning, either re-loading OR go back in to the menu. I E-mailed Panasonic's technical department about this and they advised that this was a disc feature and not a defect with the player which I verified since it works fine on standard DVD's. I always thought this was a player function. Not so.
This is something I have never seen on any reviews or commented on in any of the forums.

Any thoughts on this?



It's a hit on miss (even on PS3) for Blu-ray discs. It doesn't work with java based discs, and it's hit and miss for others. It's pretty incredible that something so basic was not available from day one.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
Hansang #229435 11/11/08 03:05 PM
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It is intentional (the disk has to enabled/disable that function explicitly). DVDs used to be like that, forcing you to go back to advertisement and FBI WARNING. At some point, studios stopped doing that as people were quite unhappy, especially since they were competing against VHS which wasn't rewinding automatically when pressing stop. I find that an increasing number of BD are now supporting "resume" compared to last year.

Bookmarks, when supported, can give you a bit of that function.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
casey01 #229455 11/11/08 06:02 PM
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Hi casey and all,

I did see a review awhile back that commented on the lack of this feature in Blu-ray playback because I recall thinking at the time, "How annoying. ."

However, I expect this capability will appear as the format matures. To put this in context, when CDs first appeared in the early 1980s, many classical CDs didn't have digital markers so you could advance or cue up different movements in a symphony or the like. I own several classical CDs that I bought in Germany during a press trip around 1982 (CDs hadn't yet launched in Canada) that have no markers. It wreaks havoc with shuffle playback in a CD changer because if the changer loads it, the disc plays in its entirety--all 78 minutes. I'm not always in the mood to hear the entire "Daphnis et Chloe" should my changer select that disc at random.

Alan


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
EFalardeau #229461 11/11/08 07:09 PM
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No resume or bookmarks? Just one more reason to wait till they get it right.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
jakewash #229464 11/11/08 07:17 PM
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The features are there and many studios are using them. But it is still considered "part of the disk". With DVDs, at some point they removed the feature and allowed players to do whatever they wanted with play/resume.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
EFalardeau #229478 11/11/08 08:13 PM
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Whether it be the studios or the design of Blu Ray, makes no matter, until they can be played back with all the same features you can get with a standard dvd, people will still shy away.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
jakewash #229486 11/11/08 09:00 PM
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Funny, that reminds me of when I wanted a Jetta. I was willing to pay a premium for the looks at the time, but not the premium they were asking. At one point the sales guy countered, "But its a Jetta". I answered, but its not worth 8 grand more and walked out.

I can only imagine all those Sony execs telling themselves, "But it Bluray".


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
fredk #229762 11/14/08 05:43 AM
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I have the 350 and it has some appealing pros at the moment: relatively cheap at $224 on Amazon (or it was yesterday, today it's $229 through an Amazon reseller), fast load times, quiet play, small footprint, it does hold your place when you want to resume play, provides very good dvd upconversion, to my eye and according to recent CNET review in comparison to other upconverting units such as OPPO (research this last one if it's important, I'm not an expert). Cons are it doesn't decode all of the new HD Audio codecs internally and doesn't have 7 analog outs.

Sort of a sweet spot for a particular market if it isn't missing features you happen to need. You can always rent blu ray discs or buy one or two for the fun of it without going too deeply into excessive consumer spending mode.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
SatKartr #229768 11/14/08 06:38 AM
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Yea, the 350 is a great player from what I hear. I jumped on the new big brother, the 550, for the 2 items that you said were missing on the 350 (all HD-audio decoding, and analog 7.1 outputs that can send all of the HD-audio).


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
nickbuol #229939 11/15/08 02:53 PM
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I'm going to jump in here rather than starting a new thread....

I also bought the Toshiba HD-DVD player at the Wal-Mart special last year. I hadn't really followed Blu-Ray partly because I already had the Toshiba (and maybe 12 discs) and because I was waiting till Blu-Ray matured.

Well, now it seems as though it HAS mostly matured. As I start looking into options, I keep getting the feeling that I'm going to hit a brick wall with my current Denon 3805 receiver....(no HDMI inputs).

True or False miscellaneous ramblings, numbered for ease-of-answering...

1- Am I correct that all the new, uncompressed sound formats can ONLY be passed to the receiver through HDMI if they are not decoded within the player? And ONLY v1.3? (Won't work for me as my receiver doesn't have HDMI of any flavor).

2- If you buy a player that decodes on-board AND has analog "outs", you gain the ability to send the already-decoded signal to the receiver via the receivers' analog "ins"? (Won't work for me as I already use the receiver's analog ins for SACD/DVD-A playback).

3- Am I correct in reading that some Blu-Ray players decode SOME of the new sound formats on-board, but not others?

4- Are there players that decode on-board, but send the now-decoded signal to the receiver via digital coax or optical Toslink?

5- If the answer to #4 is "no", I guess my only option would be to not have access to the uncompressed audio tracks on the discs I play. So what DO I get....Dolby Digital? And, I assume THAT is sent via optical or digital coax?

6- Is the PS3 frequently recommended simply as a good value, or is there also some flexibility it terms of decoding or outputs that would help someone in my situation?

I guess what I'm trying to determine is whether or not getting a Blu-Ray player is even feasible with my old receiver. Obviously, I could enjoy the good-looking content of Blu-Ray, but if I don't have any way of enjoying the better sound as well, I might just wait....

I feel like a NOOB because I hadn't really followed Blu-Ray. But lately I've been "tempted", have a bit of extra cash and knowing that there might be some excellent deals on players and discs coming in the next few weeks, I need a crash course....




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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
MarkSJohnson #229943 11/15/08 03:49 PM
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Mark,
1- Yes, only need HDMI 1.1
2- Yes
3- Yes
4- No (HDCP is mandatory for copy protection, or else it has to be sent analog; same thing here as SACD)
5- Some disks already do not offer regular DD or DTS for the main tracks so you will hit a wall fast, I think, or start learning Spanish or French
6- No additional help from PS3 (doesn't mean it not good, but the problems you face are more from the legal department than technical)

You might be able to get a "collapsed" and reduced stereo image through regular digital connections and use PLII and other to rebuild the surround.

Sounds like you either need a new receiver or some switch boxes to share the analog inputs between SACD and Blu-ray. Pretty those exists (you can't possibly be the first one to ever have two devices with multi-channel analog needs!).

If you go analog, I would recommend the new Panasonic 55 (pretty sure it has analog outputs). I have the BD-30 and really, really like despite it is only and "profile 1.1" (I also have a PS3 in case I really need the additional thingies with 2.0).



Last edited by EFalardeau; 11/15/08 03:52 PM.

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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
MarkSJohnson #229945 11/15/08 03:52 PM
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 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
1- Am I correct that all the new, uncompressed sound formats can ONLY be passed to the receiver through HDMI if they are not decoded within the player? And ONLY v1.3? (Won't work for me as my receiver doesn't have HDMI of any flavor).


Change "uncompressed" to "losslessly compressed." Uncompressed would be PCM, and then you only need 1.1, I believe. Yes, you're correct that they would have to be decoded in the player otherwise.

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
2- If you buy a player that decodes on-board AND has analog "outs", you gain the ability to send the already-decoded signal to the receiver via the receivers' analog "ins"? (Won't work for me as I already use the receiver's analog ins for SACD/DVD-A playback).


That's right.

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
3- Am I correct in reading that some Blu-Ray players decode SOME of the new sound formats on-board, but not others?


Correct.

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
4- Are there players that decode on-board, but send the now-decoded signal to the receiver via digital coax or optical Toslink?


No such luck.

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
5- If the answer to #4 is "no", I guess my only option would be to not have access to the uncompressed audio tracks on the discs I play. So what DO I get....Dolby Digital? And, I assume THAT is sent via optical or digital coax?


I haven't really read thoroughly on this, but I would assume either Dolby Digital or DTS depending on which variation of lossless codec is used. But yeah, I'm sure you can get some form of downgraded audio through optical or digital coax.

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
6- Is the PS3 frequently recommended simply as a good value, or is there also some flexibility it terms of decoding or outputs that would help someone in my situation?


There's no real flexibility. You'd need HDMI, and it only ouputs the new formats as already-decoded multichannel LPCM.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
EFalardeau #229946 11/15/08 04:00 PM
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 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
5- Some disks already do not offer regular DD or DTS for the main tracks so you will hit a wall fast, I think, or start learning Spanish or French

[...]

You might be able to get a "collapsed" and reduced stereo image through regular digital connections and use PLII and other to rebuild the surround.


Yeah, this is what I'm fuzzy on.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
CV #229947 11/15/08 04:03 PM
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 Originally Posted By: CV
 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
5- Some disks already do not offer regular DD or DTS for the main tracks so you will hit a wall fast, I think, or start learning Spanish or French

[...]

You might be able to get a "collapsed" and reduced stereo image through regular digital connections and use PLII and other to rebuild the surround.


Yeah, this is what I'm fuzzy on.

Actually, I think you were right in your post about the DTS HD-MA and DolbyTrueHD; there is a "core" in it that would be regular DD and DTS and thus it would work like a DVD (possibly slightly higher bitrates such as 640Kbps for DD and maybe DTS-Discrete).


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
EFalardeau #229948 11/15/08 04:06 PM
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I seem to remember reading something about the "core" being a requirement in the HD DVD spec, but not in the Blu-ray spec. Or vice versa. My brief searching isn't turning up the handy chart I saw before.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
CV #229972 11/15/08 08:26 PM
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If you don't have an HDMI compatible AVR or pre-pro, all is not lost when it comes to improved sound. I happened to have the opportunity of comparing both the standard DVD and Blu-ray versions of "Iron-Man" along with "Hell-Boy" and "The Incredible Hulk" on my new Panasonic BD-55 plugged into my receiver ONLY thru a coaxial cable. The default soundtrack in Iron Man is "Dolby Tru-HD 5.1" and Hellboy and The Hulk are "DTS Master Audio 7.1".

Maybe it is my ears, but to me, even though the Blu-ray discs were downmixed to their appropriate Dolby Digital and DTS ES soundtracks, I couldn't help but notice a difference between the Standard DVD and Blu-ray versions(on the same player!). In addition to the obvious picture superiority, the sound was LOUDER and the separation was better on Blu-Ray. I don't know why this is the case but I can only assume it is because of the superiority of the original mix done in the more advanced formats. I can't wait to upgrade in order to obtain direct HDMI sound capability.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
casey01 #229980 11/15/08 10:08 PM
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Mark,

Think of the formats as you would standard DD or DTS. (the new formats are DD+, DD-TrueHD, DTS-HD-HR (high resolution), DTS-HD-M (master). There’s no difference between the old and new, other than that the ‘new’ has more information than the old. All the formats are basically zip files that need to be unpacked (decoded). When they get unpacked, the result is an uncompressed multi channel PCM data stream. Either the source has to do the unpacking or the audio processor has to do the unpacking. The M-PCM data stream then gets converted to analogue by either the source, or the audio processor’s DAC’s (digital to analogue converter).

Assuming the source does the unpacking, it is then output to the audio processor in one of two ways, or sometimes both. One way is through the multi channel analogue outputs. The other way is through HDMI. HDMI version 1.1 is all that is required to transmit M-PCM. HMDI 1.2 is required to transmit DSD (SACD digital stream transfer). HDMI 1.3 is required to transmit the compressed formats. Some BR players have the hardware to do both, some don’t. Some players will decode only DD-HD, but no DTS-M. DTS-M takes more processing power than the others, so its decoding has been lagging with some manufactures.

In you have an audio processor that does not have HDMI, you will have to use the analogue inputs if you want to hear the uncompressed audio stored on the disks. If you don’t have that either, you will have to use either Optical or Coax. DD-TrueHD does not have a “core”, but the BR and HD disks come with an additional format; which is usually 5.1 DD. You will be able to hear the 5.1 DD track. DTS-M has a core DTS 5.1 audio stream embedded that all players will extract from the DTS-M audio stream. It is the “core” that you will hear via Coax or Optical.

The PS3 is a great little machine despite its warts. I would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone that does not mind having an ugly gaming console in their EQ rack, or doesn’t mind dealing with one of the several available IR workarounds. If you play games, then that’s an additional bonus. The PS3 does not, from what I can interpret, any shortcomings than any other BR player on the market. The ONLY exception would be; that it will not output the new formats in their compressed state. There is a large following of argumentive self proclaimed audio experts that believe you sacrifice SQ if the source does the decoding. I for one do not buy into that nonsense. I have experimented with both for hours and can not detect any difference whatsoever. I have perfect hearing too.

I have not kept up on the newer PS3's, but I seam to recall reading that Sony dropped SACD support. I do not know for certain if that is true or not. I have the first generation, 20 gig PS3. It does everything, and it does it all very well. SACD sounds nothing short of spectacular through it.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
casey01 #230017 11/16/08 03:34 AM
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Casey, if you didn't read it when it was cited here before it'd be worthwhile to study the results from the listening tests, blind and otherwise, which Home Entertainment Magazine ran on the various audio formats which may be present on Blu-ray discs. The DD and DTS tracks are in fact of a higher standard than those present on regular DVDs and the tests indicate that they have the capability at least as a format, if handled properly, to sound essentially indistinguishable from the TrueHD or Master Audio tracks.

In the cases that you describe, if the DD and DTS tracks were noticeably louder than their cousins on the regular DVDs, that alone would make them sound better apart from any format superiority, and mixing a little louder doesn't require a better format.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
JohnK #230031 11/16/08 07:03 AM
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I thought that the article was stating that the latest Dolby and DTS codecs (TrueHD and DTS-MA) were noticeably better than the DVD versions of DD5.1 and DTS, but that you couldn't really tell a difference between those new codecs and the completely uncompressed PCM, and that the PCM is a waste of space on the disc when the other HD-audio formats sound just as good, but take up less space.

Maybe I read it wrong. I've been out partying a little tonight.

Last edited by nickbuol; 11/16/08 07:03 AM.

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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
nickbuol #230034 11/16/08 09:10 AM
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Nick, the tests of course confirmed that there was no audible difference between the TrueHD, DTS-MA and uncompressed PCM samples. Since the TrueHD and DTS-MA compression is lossless, it gives the identical data that the uncompressed PCM does, so there's not even a theoretical difference and this is the expected result. What was interesting was that the higher rate(640Kb/s)DD track was also audibly indistinguishable despite the loss of data that still resulted from its compression.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
JohnK #230044 11/16/08 04:15 PM
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I re-read it this morning, after some sleep, and basically, it says that all of the higher audio formats (Lossless and higher rate) that are found on Blu-Ray discs are better then the "regular" DD and DTS. And to most testers, the lossless formats and the higher rate sounded the same.

Makes sense to me. Take an already good codec, and give it a little more bandwidth (640kbps vs. 448kbps), and it should sound better.

I knew I needed some sleep.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
nickbuol #230045 11/16/08 04:38 PM
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Wait.

How does all this buy me a new receiver?


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
JohnK #230047 11/16/08 04:46 PM
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You’re splitting hairs John. In the summery they do not say that there is no audible difference.

“That said, I could definitely pick out the difference between the lesser (or perhaps it’s more accurate to say “better”) compressed versions and the higher compressed versions. The difference is mostly in the presence, or ambience. The lossless, Dolby Digital Plus, and DTS-HD High Resolution compressed tracks were just a little more open and airy. I hate to say it, but they just sounded more realistic and transparent. The 448 kbps Dolby Digital and standard DTS tracks were less so, a little more closed off. Between the 640 kbps Dolby Digital and the uncompressed, the difference was even less noticeable. Enough so that most people, even those trained to listen for it, probably won’t be able to hear the difference.
The core DTS call is a little harder, as there wasn’t the same blind system in place to A/B as precisely as at Dolby. Results were similar, though. So by all means go for the new codecs, as they definitely sound better than what was on DVD. Uncompressed PCM, on the other hand, is just a waste of space (though compatible with everything).
If you’ve been listening at home and are sure you can hear a difference on your favorite discs, be wary. There is absolutely no way to tell that compressed and uncompressed tracks on any disc have anything to do with each other. They could come from different masters, they could be mixed differently, or any number of other variables that makes an in-home test, unfortunately, impossible. That said, trust your ears, and go with the one that sounds best to you. –Geoffrey Morrison “

While I definitely agree that the BR – DTS core and DD steams are very good, and much better than standard DVD, the DD-TrueHD and DTS-HD-Master tracks are superior. I just recently picked up the BR version of Transformers. This disk has either DD True HD or DTS-M (I do not recall which). I also have the HD-DVD version of this movie, which has a DD+ audio track. I bought the BR version to compare the two because I just wasn’t all that impressed with the HD-DVD audio when I first watched the movie. I started both movies at the same time and I cycled between both. I would watch / listen to one for a spell, pause it then switch to the other. Time after time I found the BR version to be more dynamic and enveloping than the HD-DVD version. One could argue that the difference I note is purely subjective and just wishful thinking on my part, but I’m sticking to my evaluation and belief.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
michael_d #230083 11/16/08 09:01 PM
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Some exclusive HD-DVDs just used the regular DVD version of the audio, while many of them, once released on Blu-Ray, included a higher bit rate audio track. Maybe it isn't all just wishful thinking. \:\)


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
Ken.C #230097 11/17/08 12:32 AM
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I just got the Panasonic DMP-BD55 since it can decode the new formats and output them as 7.1 analog to my receiver. It arrives Friday !!!!

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
treyp #230101 11/17/08 01:36 AM
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Congrats on the DB55...

That is why I can't wait to "get" my S550. All HD formats output on the 7.1 analogs... Of course, I've had mine for a couple of weeks now, but the box is still sealed up, sitting in our closet, waiting for Christmas... I envy you...


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
nickbuol #230102 11/17/08 01:47 AM
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I would never be able to last until Christmas.

Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
CV #230103 11/17/08 01:49 AM
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Me neither. I think I would start my own religion and declare xmas to be on Nov. 18 (so I would have 2 days to buy a few disks) to deal with the issue.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
EFalardeau #230121 11/17/08 02:24 AM
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I've already read about some great deals on Black Friday for Blu-ray players and discs, Wallmart is rumored to be selling the Magnavox Blu-ray player for $128.00 and Radio Shack having Samsung's BD-P1500 player for $199.00. For those prices I'll consider getting a second player.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
treyp #230123 11/17/08 02:26 AM
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 Originally Posted By: treyp
I just got the Panasonic DMP-BD55 since it can decode the new formats and output them as 7.1 analog to my receiver. It arrives Friday !!!!


Quick question for you treyp. On Panasonic's website, it only says "DTS High Resolution" and not "Master Audio" Can the BD55 decode master audio? thanks


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
HomeDad #230124 11/17/08 02:30 AM
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I've got to start checking out what the Black Friday deals are.... I'm really itching to buy the Pannie 55.

Maybe I'll unplug my for-SACD-and-DVD-A-only-Oppo to enjoy the better sound of Blu-Ray. THEN I'll need a new receiver to open up that capability of the 5.1 analog "ins" again....


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
MarkSJohnson #230125 11/17/08 02:31 AM
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I see Sears has a sell on a Sharp for $179. Not sure how good of a player it is though.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday
MarkSJohnson #230139 11/17/08 03:30 AM
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 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
I've got to start checking out what the Black Friday deals are.... I'm really itching to buy the Pannie 55.

This thread at AVS will keep you up to date on all blu-ray player deals, including black friday. I check here everyday hoping to find something that fits within my budget.

Blu-Ray Player Special Deals...


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday
richeydog #230173 11/17/08 01:08 PM
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Thanks, Michael! I'll keep an eye on the thread!


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
Hansang #230178 11/17/08 01:24 PM
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 Originally Posted By: treyp
I just got the Panasonic DMP-BD55 since it can decode the new formats and output them as 7.1 analog to my receiver. It arrives Friday !!!!

I got mine a few weeks ago and I really like it a lot. This is my second Blu-ray player and it greatly superior to my first one (Sharp). Hope you enjoy yours as much as I'm enjoying mine. \:\)

 Originally Posted By: Hansang
Quick question for you treyp. On Panasonic's website, it only says "DTS High Resolution" and not "Master Audio" Can the BD55 decode master audio? thanks

Yes, it can. Can't find an online version of the Operating Instructions, but my hard copy says it decodes, in addition to all the Dolby Digital formats:

DTS Digital Surround/ DTS-ES
DTS-HD High Resolution Audio
DTS-HD Master Audio

Apparently DTS High Resolution Audio and DTS Master Audio are lumped together under the classification DTS-HD

Here are some reviews on the BD55. They contain some good tips on setup and operation.

Panasonic DMP-BD55 (DMP-BD55K) Blu-ray Player - BigPictureBigSound.com

Panasonic DMP-BD55 - CNET.com

Panasonic DMP-BD55 Blu-ray Disc Player - SoundAndVisionmag.com


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
Ajax #230190 11/17/08 02:32 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Ajax

Yes, it can. Can't find an online version of the Operating Instructions, but my hard copy says it decodes, in addition to all the Dolby Digital formats:

DTS Digital Surround/ DTS-ES
DTS-HD High Resolution Audio
DTS-HD Master Audio

Apparently DTS High Resolution Audio and DTS Master Audio are lumped together under the classification DTS-HD[snippage]


I wonder why their website doesn't specifically say that. If they said DTS-HD only, then I would think "hmmm guess it can do master audio" But when they only mention DTS-High Resolution, I got nervous. thanks for the confirmation.


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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
Hansang #230230 11/17/08 06:53 PM
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Good question. I have no idea why the web site wouldn't say DTS Master Audio.

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Re: Blu-Ray Players - What's the fav this holiday seas
Ajax #230254 11/17/08 08:56 PM
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The technical questions have been answered extremely well so I'll add in a few comments on the question as to why the PS3 was toted as THE value in BD players. (At least until the stand alone price drops.)

Why it is totes as a solid value solution to get into BD is that for the price.....

- It was one of (maybe the first) to support all the new audio codecs. (via HDMI only)
- Because it's owned by Sony, the owners of BluRay, it is always patched insta-quickly for new features. Just plug it into your Internet access.
- I also plays CDs, DVDs and some models even play SACD
- It streams music and movies from your PC or compatible devices.
- Downloadable TV and movie content is available.
- and of course, it plays games.

To be fair, using a PS3 controller to run a movie will drive you nuts until you get used to it or curse and swear your way to buying a 3rd party workaround.

Also, stand alone players have finally come down in price. Now you have to decide if the additional features are worth the PS3 price point vs. a player that does just BluRays and other disks.

For me, the streaming audio potential was the logical deciding factor and the games were the fun factor, so it was PS3 for me. Plus I scored a sweet deal.



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