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#229492 - 11/11/08 04:34 PM Help with sub selection
dyna Offline
regular

Registered: 10/26/08
Posts: 8
Loc: Cambridge, ON
So I currently have the 7.1 epic 80 600 on order. After doing further research and reading more reviews and hearing about the 800 I'm not sure I've made the right choice.

First off, the current room the system will be going into is approx 2600 cubic feet but we only plan on staying at this house for a couple more years and then possibly getting something bigger. Basically I'm hoping to get something that I'll be happy with now and in the future without wishing I had gone an alternate route.

I've looked into upgrading to the 800 but that turned out to be allot more than I was expecting. I also inquired about getting 2 500's instead and that would cost me about half as much to upgrade to the 800.

I think I'd like the sound of the 600 over the 500's but I'm worried about the port noise which I've been reading about even though other people say it's not a problem. I've also been reading about the benefits of 2 subs so that's where the 2 500's idea came into play in the first place but then its harder to arrange them in the room and make it look good. Now the 800 is sealed so I wouldn't have to worry about port noise and I'm sure it will deliver more than what I need but it's the extra cost that will dip into the projector budget that I'm wondering if it's worth it.

Soooo, either of those options would probably be more than what I "need" but I'd rather have extra than not enough and I really don't want to have to upgrade down the road. With that said, if the extra money for the 800 would be worth it than I'd just do that so here's where all your expert opinions come in ;\)

TIA

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#229498 - 11/11/08 04:55 PM Re: Help with sub selection [Re: dyna]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13565
Loc: Iowa
Here is the history of subs in my close to 8,000 cu ft rec room/HT.

350v1 - before the ep500 and ep600 came out about 5 years ago, this was the king of the hill. It did a very respectible job in this large space, but I needed more. So....

EP500 - This was a whole new experience. Like its bigger brother the EP600, this baaaby puts out some potent deeeeep bass nirvana, and gives you a whole new meaning to LFE. Port noise is not an issue. I kept this for a long time, then the peer preasure around here got to me.

EP600 - King of the hill for the last 3+ years. I also upgraded to m80's and a custom finish for all my 7.1 Axioms. The 500 and 600 are very similar, most may not tell a difference, look at the specs. In my larger room, I think the 600 gave me a little more WoW effect, was it worth the extra money, not sure. Keep in mind the cabinet is huge and most people may have a difficult time moving it around. I'm a pretty good sized strong guy, and it will give you a workout and take up a lot of room, expecially the horizontal version.

Added twin EP350v3's - multiple subs are key if you want to flatten out the peaks and nulls in the frequency response for all seating positions. It is best if you place them centered on opposite walls. With one sub you could have situations where one seat has great deep bass, and a few feet away there is a huge null and sounds dead. I pondered getting a 500 to accompany my 600 since I loved my previous 500 so much, and figured they would match up pretty good. However, after long thought, and reading the rave reviews of the new amp in the 350v3 approaching 500 performance, I was able to puchase 2 of them. This gave me a lot of flexibility on trial and error of placing the 3 subs for Boss Bass.

It may be harder to arrange multiple subs in a room, but if a true HT experience is important, there is no substitute.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-4xM22ow-4xM3ic-EP600-2xEP350
Anthem AVM60 Outlaw 7700 Emotiva A500 Epson 5040UB



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#229500 - 11/11/08 05:12 PM Re: Help with sub selection [Re: dyna]
myrison Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 1898
Loc: Denver, CO
Dyna -

 Originally Posted By: Dyna
I think I'd like the sound of the 600 over the 500's but I'm worried about the port noise which I've been reading about even though other people say it's not a problem.

I'm sure you're referring to my earlier posts on port noise. (shame on me). If that is the case, please let me clarify... I can definitively tell you that port noise on the EP600 is not a problem in 99.9% of listening situations. (literally)

Before you get too worried about port noise, please realize that I've only heard port noise on one scene of any of the movies I've watched, and I've never heard it on music (even rap music with deep thumping bass).

The "Pulse" movie where I did hear it contains a commonly-known scene that just plain causes problems for subwoofers, so you really should not worry about that one. It's almost as if the sound mixing crew made a mistake as it's so much different than anything else you'll find on DVD.

Overall, I am incredibly happy with my 600 and I'm sure you will be too. The only reason I'm adding the 800 is because I have a severe case of upgraditis with no known cure but to continue to acquire new gear as it is released. Even after getting the 800 (some day), it's still fairly likely that I'll keep both as I like the 600 that much. The comment about port noise on The Pulse should almost be looked at as irrelevant, so please don't get hung up on it! (you'll give me a complex if you do) ;\)

Now, regarding 2 subs versus 1... that is a really tough call. Let me ask you this about your room. How many different listening positions will you have? For example, will everyone sit primarily on one couch facing the screen, or will you have multiple rows of seating?

If you only have one main listening area, even with just one sub you can use the combination of position and equalization to tune the sub (using something like the BFD equalizer) so that it is linear at your main position. If you will have multiple listening areas, then getting relatively flat response throughout the room is next to impossible with just one sub.

Even if you have multiple listening areas, you also have to consider whether you care how it sounds in your non-primary listening position (i.e. where your friends sit when they come over, not where you and your family sit when watching movies). And to be clear, realize that it is not going to sound terrible in your non-primary position. [reading Randy's response, it looks like the differences were more obvious in his huge room, but they are not this overt in mine] In my room, the difference from seat to seat is something that only I noticed, even when I pointed it out to several friends and asked them to compare seating areas.

In a room as big as yours, I do not believe the difference from one seating area to another will be massive. We have about the same size of room, so I'm basing that opinion on how things sound in my room (which admittedly is not a perfect assumption as every room is a little different). While adding a second sub costs as much as the first one, the audio impact is much more subtle , it will not be night & day like the first one is, and IMHO is definitely not 2x better.

So... after all that, given that you are trying to work to a budget and given the size of your room, I'd suggest you go with one sub, the best one you can get (either the 600 or the 800). If after getting the one sub you find that you cannot get linear bass response in your primary position through positioning the sub, you can look into adding a BFD equalizer for ~$100, which worked wonders for me in my room, and is a heck of a lot cheaper than doubling your sub budget.

Lastly, if you move to a bigger place in a few years and need a second sub, I'd tackle that problem in the future. You never know what your room, budget, and wife will dictate at that point, so that would be a decision I'd worry about when it becomes a real issue, not now.

Jason



Edited by myrison (11/11/08 05:16 PM)
Edit Reason: to include comments on Randy's post as well in my response
_________________________
Epic 80-800: HG Cherry

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#229567 - 11/12/08 02:02 PM Re: Help with sub selection [Re: myrison]
Graeme L Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 186
Loc: Perth Western Australia
I would wait until you do move to the new place, technology will change by then and no doubt there will be an even better sub by that time.

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