Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater HD Audio question

I have an Onkyo Tx sr 575 receiver with HDMI 1.3 inputs but does not internally decode the new HD audio formats although my Blu ray player does decode internally and outputs by PCM, am I hearing the new HD Audio formats this way>? If so I don't have to be in the market to upgrade just yet?

Chris, yes you are if your HDMI connection on the 575 processes audio as well as video. Regardless of whether the decoding takes place in the player or in the receiver it has to be decoded into PCM, which is the fundamental digital audio format. So, for example, it starts out on the disc as Dolby TrueHD, the player decodes it to PCM and your 575 receives it and converts it to analog form for amplification. Whatever quality may or may not be present in the Dolby TrueHD will be received. Note that the receiver can't indicate that the material is Dolby True HD, since it has no way of knowing what it was before the player decoded it to multichannel PCM.

Thanks John for clarifying that. I kind of figured it would as I thought about it to myself and came to the conclusion that it should work. So now I got to get a new HDMI cord as I have jsut been using the optical for now. I'm happy about this as I don't have to upgrade just yet.

Chris, your comment about using optical rather than HDMI alerted me to the possibility that the 575 doesn't process the audio from the HDMI connection. The 576 definitely does, but I'll take a look at the 575 now. To be continued.

Okay, just checked the 575 and found that the HDMI connection doesn't process the audio, as the 576 now does. So, you wouldn't be able to use an HDMI cable to receive Dolby True HD or DTS MA. Assuming that the player has multichannel analog outputs it would both decode to PCM and then convert digital PCM to analog and send it through those outputs. You'd then have to use multichannel analog inputs(and cables)on your 575. Those HD formats, even after decoding, can't go out on optical or coaxial digital cables. Only the DD or DTS track(which may be very good and practically indistinguishable from the HD)can be transmitted on the optical or coaxial digital cables.

I haven't hooked up any HDMI to the receiver yet, jsut from the sources to the TV.

Thanks, I just looked at the Onkyo website and it clearly states right after it mentions the HDMI capability that a separate Audio connection is required. Oh well. It would have been nice if it was able to pass the audio as the performance is fine for me for now as I am running the efficient Paradigm Monitor 11's. Any recommendations for a new receiver? I like Onkyo 876/906 and have been looking at the new Pionner Elite SC-07 and Yamaha's Z7.

Chris, again note that even though the HDMI connection on the 575 can't be used for the audio, if the Blu-ray player has multi-channel analog outputs then it'll decode and convert the HD formats to analog to be sent to the the multi-channel analog inputs on your 575.

Nevertheless, as to a new receiver, the 876 is excellent and there's a report in another thread here today that J&R has it on sale for $899.

Thanks for the suggestion, thats a great price as well but unfortunately I'm up in Alberta Canada here and the lowest I've seen for the 876 is 1700, 1900 for the SC-07, 1700 for the Z7 as well. If the dollar was better and I didn't care about warrenty I'd figure out a way to buy one in the states and sneak it out here. I'll keep looking in the meantime and enjoy what I got for now.

Thanks again for helping out, appreciate it.

Merry Christmas

Now that our dollar has droped off again it really sucks being in the north, no good deals anywhere.

Jason, I just came across this website this morning and it seems to have pretty decent prices, but I did notice that the everything I looked at is refurbished.

I do like the price of this 58" Plasma. I still can't afford it but I will be keeping this site bookmarked, Thanks Cam.

First off great thread Wiggins!

Lots of good info here.

So are saying if a receiver is not capable of passing audio through hdmi you can use the multichannel analogue outs on the back of the receiver (what you would use to hook a SACD player) to the blu-ray player and then you could receive all the lossless HD audio formats that are supported for all the BluRay movies.

What do you set your receiver to (Auto or PCM)?

This is some very cool info. :):):)

Thanks for pointing that out Jonhan about the EXT. In. I was just looking through my denon manual and it supports 7.1 analog through EXT. IN.

How do you hook up the centre channel and subwoofer using a standard red/white analog cable through the EXT. IN?

House.

With a setup like this, each input requires a single RCA cable. As you probably know, the typical red/white cable is usually used for Left + Right.

With 7.1 channels, you just need 8 single RCA cables, or 4 pairs or red/white. Each goes from the matching output on the DVD player to the matching input on the Denon.

Jason

So SW and centre channel correspond to left and right when using pairs? Since there is only 1 input for each.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I was trying to say that the paired cables are really two single RCA cables that just happen to be connected together by their cable jackets. They don't actually know that they are typically used in a L+R pair.

So it's not that L+R correspond to SW and center, it's just that they each need a single RCA connection and it does not matter whether you use a paired R/L cable or two single cables.

As long as the RCA cable connected on the source (example the red cable connected to the center out on the DVD) corresponds to the input on the receiver (the other end of the red cable connected to the Ext In section), you'll get the correct sound out of the correct speakers. To extend the example, you could just as easily swap the cables and make the white cable connect on both ends (center out and center in), and you'd get the same result.

More clear now or did I muddy the waters further?

Jason

Becareful, you might be mixing up two different concepts here. The Center channel has one phyical cable with two cable strands inside: + and - (or black and red). But there isn't a LEFT center channel and a RIGHT center channel.


The Sub typicall uses one physical RCA terminated cable. If you have two subs, you need a Y splitter or subs that know how to daisy chain.

Hansang - I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong (but at least to this point I'm not certain I am, or I'm actually saying the same thing you are in a more confusing way) I'll wait for others to come along and confirm one way or the other.

My understanding though is that each of the speaker connections from DVD player with analog outs to a receiver like the Denon with an "Ext In" section requires a single RCA cable.

Even though FL and FR are typically grouped using Red and White (see the picture below for reference), I didn't think there was a difference between using two separate single RCA cables and using a joined pair of RCA cables that includes a left + right termination in white and red. What I was saying above is that you could use 4 pairs of Red/white cables as long as you matched the ends to the associated inputs/outputs, or you could run 8 single RCA cables. The key in the end is that the opposite ends of the cable are connected to the corresponding inputs/outputs.

To further clarify, I am not talking about anything having to do with connections from receiver to speakers, I am talking about connections from a device with 7.1 analog outputs to the receiver.



Jason

Makes total sense :). Just be consistent red to red, white to white from receiver to player with sub and centre analog outs. Other than that really does not matter. Sounds a lot like speaker wire!

Thanks for the help :).

Cool - and now that I reread Hansang's post, he was responding to you, not me... sorry you had to read me saying the same thing twice.

Jason

To be honest I must have been living in a bubble the last few years, I did not know that was even possible that you could receive lossless audio formats through mc analog until today. I guess the main advantage is for people with older receivers or their receiver is not capable of passing audio through hdmi.

Are the bass management settings and gain levels defeated on the receiver when using this?

I did a quick search on blu ray players that support 7.1 MC analog audio.

Panasonic DMP BD55
Sony BDP S550
Samsung BD-P2550

These seem to get recommended a lot, if you are specifically using mc analog which one is best for this purpose or are there better players out there.

Usually, on the receiver's remote, you must select "Multichannel." It's a separate setting like "Dolby," "DTS," or "Multichannel." The "Multichannel" inputs won't offer an Auto or PCM choice since those are for digital inputs like optical and coaxial. The multichannel inputs are analog.

I believe most receivers will not apply bass mgmt etc when using analog inputs. On paper, the upcoming Oppo BDP-83 looks to be the best player for $500 or so. Based on Oppo's history, they will probably hit a home run with this unit.

Won't the blu-ray player apply the bass management? There is an EXT. In on my Denon that will control the gain level on my sub using analog out and that is set at +15. I wonder about the crossover setting and speaker gain levels?

Chris, or Jay or any Canadian who might be interested, I do note that B&H(very reputable)does show on their site that they ship Onkyo at quite good prices to Canada with various shipping charges averaging $100. I'm unsure if a Canadian would order and at the last step his computer would flash red and go up in smoke(it's been said that the Canadian Onkyo distributor is very powerful), but there appears to be no difficulty. Anyone interested could feed in their info and see if the order is processed up to the end(they're closed now for Shabbat(the Jewish Sabbath)until sundown Saturday).

Yes, the blu-ray player applies bass management. You go through a speaker setup just as you do with your receiver.

Okay so I am back with another question, I have the Onkyo Tx sr 575 receiver which can't handle to audio over HDMI. It has multichannel analog inputs. I am looking at the new Panasonic BD55 to enjoy the new audio formats over multichannel. My TV is a 50 inch Panasonic PZ85. The following question is strickly for audio, not video. For the time being due to they way the room is laid out I just have the front 3 speakers hooked up which I watch with Onkyo's theatre dimensional setting where it feels like surround sound and it's not to bad. I know to enjoy the new HD audio at its best I would need to finish my setup and make it so it is a 7.1 setup adding 4 more speakers and a sub. Since that is not my case right now, can you still enjoy the new formats just as well with say just a 5.1 setup or like mine for now a 3 speaker setup? Would I notice a difference in sound quality with the new formats from just my three speakers or from just a 5.1 setup as opposed to a regular DD or DTS soundtrack? Am I better off waiting until I get my 5 or 7 .1 setup completed to worry about the new audio formats or just buy a new receiverw hich handles HDMI audio and go with a Blu ray player with just HDMI and no multichannel inputs? I'm looking for the best way to spend my money here and utilize what I have. I like the reciever as it pairs well with my Paradigm Monitor 11 v5 and the matching center channel, but now I wish I would have opted for the 605 or equivalent so I wouldn't have to be in this mess. The salesman didn't help me too much as I didn't realize at the time even though the reciever has HDMI, it does not support the new audio even if its decoded in the disc player and then sent out. Kind of feel like I wasted my money now.

I kind'a know how you feel regarding the "wasted my money" comment. Whether it's sales-people or advancing technology, it always seems as though once you acquire something, a few days later you wish you would have waited (my Axiom speakers being the exception!!!).

In my case, I was running an ancient Pioneer VSX-3600 receiver. I bought it in ~ 1989 for $600. It was the cheapest receiver I could afford that had Dolby Surround (Pro-Logic was another $300!!! LOL). Finally last year, I saved up enough $$$ to buy a new Yamaha HTR-6060 that was on sale. Again, it was the most receiver I could buy at the time with my budget and I thought this will do me for the next 20 years .It wasn't until a few months later that True-HD and DTS-HD became available from many manufacturers at regular price vs the sale price I paid. DOH!
But, thankfully my "old" Yammy has multi-channel analogue inputs. This alows me to do the similar thing you may do. My next purchase I've decided is the Panasonic DMP-BD55 blu-ray player. It decodes the latest audio formats, converts them to multi-channel outputs. Those plug right into my Yammy's inputs, and then it does the rest.

Ahhhh, such is life.

Another thought would be to use the Digital audio out as well to access the higher bit rate versions of DD and DTS(which are said to be nearly as good as the HD audio) on the BR discs and not even go into the analog inputs, but to answer your question, yes the receiver will down sample to the 3 channels you have.