Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater SMALL vs LARGE (especially you Onkyo/Denon owners)

You should not use your sub to adjust crossover if you have a surround receiver. Set the sub to as high as it will go and set the crossover in the receiver. Then, you don't have to worry about the signals being produced in both speakers.

Also, (hate to bring it up again), although the M80 is *capable* of reproducing 34Hz, it will produce it about 6db less than the EP500 will. So, yes, it will reproduce it, just at 1/4 of the output power.

Sorry, I wrote my question wrong... what I was asking was whether that comment referenced the crossover setting within the receiver for the mains or the crossover setting within the receiver for the subwoofer.

Clear as mud now?

Jason

What a pile of nonsense.

Setting the crossover in the subwoofer to match the roll off point of one's main speakers WORKS PERFECTLY FINE!!
A huge surprise, apparently.

Setting a receiver to small and having a subwoofer handle frequencies 80Hz and under is not an absolute.

"double bass"?
not if the xover for the sub starts at the roll off point for the mains

"free up the mains"?
ridiculous, why even bother putting in bass drivers?
again, what's the point?
why not just sell M60s and M80s cheaper, without bass drivers just for people that also want to use them with a subwoofer?
Power is irrelevant here (see umpteen threads from the past 7 years on power) unless you are running a 50W/ch Sony HTIB receiver.

Why do so many people subscribe to the concept of following a Dolby standard for setup with movies? Does anyone think more about the concept of blending the crossovers and why this works?
It isn't hard to do. Set it by ear and use the frequency chart only as a starting point, not an absolute.

The M60s are scaled to handle a lower frequency than what i have our xover set (around 50-55Hz). I would hazard a guess a good blending xover point for the M80 would start around 45Hz.

EITHER WAY (large or small) works perfectly fine for speakers for music or for movies.

So why does Axiom and other manufacturers talk about cascading (I believe that is the term) conflicts when having the sub crossover not on bypass or turned up to the highest setting whe your AVR is handling the bass management?

Chess,

I never said matching the XO frequencies would not work, but it's pointless if your receiver is setting the crossover anyway. You could set the sub's XO at 40, and it would not matter if the receiver's XO was set at 80. There would be a hole in between those frequencies. Do it the other way, then you get double duty.

Why not just set the sub XO as high as it will go and do it all through the receiver?

Anyway, it really was not so much my point as that the sub is built for low frequencies, and is much better, and MUCH more efficient at doing it. The M80 is GREAT, but it is no match for the EP500 for frequencies less than 80Hz.

I need a better description to what it is you are referring.

If a subwoofer overlaps frequencies of the main speakers you would have an overlap of bass.
That is a given.
But the main speakers begin to naturally roll off in SPL (what you see on the frequency graph) and the subwoofer can take up the SPL from that point (or somewhere around that point, preference goes to the user and of course room will play a role here as well).
The subwoofer internal x-over must be set to match that preferred roll off point (too high and you have bass overlap, too low and you have a bass hole) and the sub volume needs to be adjusted to match the base SPL of the mains.

The AVR has nothing to do with this situation if its x-over is essentially turned off and the mains and sub allowed to play full range together. It is the subwoofer x-over knob that becomes the master controlling point.

All the AVR x-over setting does is make that roll off point at 80Hz and begin the mains rolloff at that Hz.
There is no difference in using the natural low end rolloff of the mains to do that very same thing except that the mains will play to a lower point and the sub picks up SPL at a lower point.

Hell, some AVRs even have lower x-over settings below 80 now. If i had an AVR with an internal x-over of 40Hz, it would actually be too low for the M60s!!

Well for one my receiver only has an 80Hz x-over.
Bought it back in 2002 and it is only a 6 ch unit.
Are you trying to tell me i need to get something newer?!!



Efficient yes but more boomy IMO.
I've compared the sound of subs in the 'higher' low bass range and they sound less accurate, less tight. I prefer the bass from a smaller driver especially for music.
I set the sub to only play the very low end that really is beyond the capability of the mains.

Yeah, I generally leave my crossover at 60 hz, but sometimes turn it down to 40 hz during music for my m80 and ep500 combo. These settings are made in the receiver and the crossover on my ep500 knob is set to max (150/bypass)

I think in the end what it comes down to is personal preference and taste. I like having the crossover on my receiver and not the sub. This way I can make adjustments from my couch with out having to get up and twist a knob.

I think it ultimately comes down to what sounds good in your room. *IF* the little bump provided by the mains helps smooth things out, more power to you. Remember where audyssey is coming from though. The MultEQ *XT* had 8 times more resolution when dealing with the SUB. So if Audyssey helps smooth things out, it makes sense to let the sub handle the load. It's easier on the receiver, audyssey can correct it better, and since subs are designed to produce the bass, it's a win win.

I guess there is a reason why EP500 and 600's pricing are what they are. Finally, my EP500 with Dynamic EQ really really makes the EP500 shine. I wish my room was perfectly treated to provide perfect bass all around, but it's not setup that way. Audyssey helps me get there a bit closer.

BTW, MultEQ alone did not do the job in my room. MultEQ XT however, made a world of difference.

Chesseroo,
"'free up the mains' ridiculous, why even bother putting in bass drivers? again, what's the point?"

the point is that anything below 34Hz (or whatever the value may be) is lost. You sub - assuming it's a good sub - can handle it. So why make the mains do the job that it wasn't designed to do? M80's and 60's are not subwoofers. That's not the primary function of the mains. Otherwise, people would buy one more M80s instead of an EP-X00.

"why not just sell M60s and M80s cheaper, without bass drivers just for people that also want to use them with a subwoofer?"

I think that's why M22/EP-500 is recommended more often than not. To put it another way, when you add a subwoofer to a car, the stock factory speakers sound that much better at louder volumes. For me, it's the same concept.

But in the end, whatever sounds better to your ear is the right setup.

No, I'm not saying you should buy anything.

Also, I will say my system does not sound boomy even with 2 subs.

I am glad you like what you have; so do I. I will say that when I turn my subs off and let the M80s play full range there is a noticeable drop off in bass. The Axiom graphs confirm my perception.