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Re: Room treatments - what and where?
BoB/335 #242126 01/23/09 04:07 AM
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Bob, rooms of typical dimensions(e.g., not square)and typically furnished don't "suck". Some modest room treatments may be helpful, because all rooms affect the sound from the speakers, but it isn't as big a deal as some indicate.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Room treatments - what and where?
bradenmcg #242138 01/23/09 04:34 AM
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I thought the 30 day policy was for a full refund and I thought I read here on the forum that the trade up policy was much longer.

In any case I would call Axiom. It don't hurt to ask.

Re: Room treatments - what and where?
BoB/335 #242150 01/23/09 06:55 AM
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 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
Reading this thread makes me want to cancel my order. I know there's this whole science thing to room treatments but I don't intend or hope to do anything. Does that mean my room will suck too?

Nope. Only two members at a time are allowed to have rooms that sucketh. Right now its me and Mark. You'll have to wait your turn. ;\)

Even in a room that sucks, the M80s sound great. Way better than that Mini stereo I had.

My room sucks because of two flaws: concrete walls (very reflective to both high and low frequencies, its basically square. Because of that, I will get a lot of milage out of some some basic treatments.

Actually, I am picking up a used parametric equalizer this weekend to tame a major peak in the bass region. If it works, I should get rid of some major boom that hopefully also tanslates to more LFE impact and more bass detail in music.


Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
Re: Room treatments - what and where?
fredk #242183 01/23/09 01:57 PM
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Bob, the trade up policy does go longer, however, the longer you wait the value of what your trading goes down. This does not make sense to you? If you sell a car to someone that is 1 year old, compared to the same car that is 5 yrs old, the new one will be worth more on a trade.

Also, why would you cancel your order because your room MIGHT suck? The problem with room acoustics as nothing to do with Axiom speakers, all speakers are affected by your room, this has been the case since God created the Earth.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: Room treatments - what and where?
SirQuack #242209 01/23/09 03:15 PM
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My advice is don't sweat the room treatments so much at this time. 99% of people never modify their room and live a very happy normal life. If you seek advice on audio forums, you are hearing from the 1% or whatever that truly enjoy tweaking their systems and rooms to push the top levels of performance.

Yes, a room can make a big difference in sound properties but I'm betting that your enjoyment levels from the new speakers will surpass your expectations even without delving into finessing the room. There is tons of time to play around with that later.


With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
Re: Room treatments - what and where?
Murph #242221 01/23/09 04:28 PM
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I built a few DIY tweaks I'm trying out now. I found some pink dense foam insulation that is folded accordion style. The nice thing is you can make it as thick as you want, and the folding actually leaves air space in between the layers. My first version is 2 inches deep in a corner, with about 6 layers of this insulation board. Not sure the reflective attributes but I was very surprised that sound moves through them very well - perhaps too well.

Putting a think layer in front of a speaker barely decreased the spl level just behind it. Yet, while hanging on the wall, you can fell them move like a slow moving bass driver. That leads me to believe they are absorbing the sound (thus transforming the sound back into mechanical motion). So in theory I think they "work" but I can't tell you that I notice much difference in sound. I need to build a few more and see how it goes once I have the back wall of small room treated.

Going to cover one with wine corks to give it a more artistic flair. (Can never have enough flair, right!) Anybody know the reflective attributes of cork? I'm hoping the round surface and soft skin will result in good diffusion and absorbsion, but I might be preventing the pink stuff from doing anything with cork on the surfact??? (Some studying would probably be helpful, but winging it is so much more time consuming!) If anybody has a surplus of wine corks send them down! On second thought, just send the wine and i'll send the corks back to you so you can build your own. Yeah, that's a better approach.


Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
Re: Room treatments - what and where?
Zimm #242224 01/23/09 04:47 PM
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Ha ha! make sure no-one sends you screw-on caps instead of corks, Charles!
So what constitutes the 'proper' or 'perfect' room for HT. Unless someone is building a dedicated home theatre from scratch, we've got to work with what we've got. My room (actually a family room) is abooot (couldn't resist) 20 ft x 14 ft with 8ft ceiling. The floors are 3/4 hardwood covered with an 11x9 thick wool rug, side wall on the 20 ft has two glass doors, oposite wall is clear (drywall), the 14 ft wall at one end is mostly fireplace and at the oposite end the room opens diagonally on both sides to hallway/breakfast area. Does this sound like a nightmare for HT? I think I need to empty a few bottles myself before I tackle this one. ;\)


Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
Re: Room treatments - what and where?
Adrian #242234 01/23/09 05:38 PM
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 Quote:
(actually a family room) is abooot...

Better than a shoe. Those things have horrible accoustics! ...Unless your room is das Boot, in which case your sunk. ;\)


Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
Re: Room treatments - what and where?
fredk #242235 01/23/09 05:45 PM
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Fred, you need to audition for Yuk-Yuk's!!! \:D
BTW, re Das Boot....that's one sub that can really go deep!


Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
Re: Room treatments - what and where?
Adrian #242238 01/23/09 06:01 PM
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Adrian. The 'perfect room' would be [bilatterally] symetrical with a mix of absorbtive and diffusive characteristics.

Drywall over studs will act as a resonant absorber at certain frequencies, depending on the density of the drywall and debth of the cavity, and reflective at higher frequencies (say above 500Hz to 1KHz).

Glass would be transparent at low frequencies (resonates and allows low frequencies to be pased through because it is not covering an enclosed space [resonant absorber]) and reflective at high frequencies.

Having differences from one side to the other may have a noticable affect in imaging. As and example, the couch I have along the left wall blocking part of my left speaker shifted the whole soundstage noticably right. I had to boost my left speaker by about 2db to center the image, and I suspect it still affects the 'placement' of instruments on the soundstage.

Probably the main reason I am aware of some of the defficiencies of my room is that I had the chance to audition the system I bought in a symmetrical and acoustically good room at Axiom.

I was wowed by the difference between two channel and 5.1 music on one of the live discs I took with me to demo. I do not get that same wow difference in my room. Had I never listened in such a good room, I would probably be ignorant of the shortcomings of my room. [As a side note, I wonder how many people are underwhelmed by 5.1 music because of less than good/perfect acoustics in their room.]

Being a perfectionist/pedant, I now feel bound to chase acousic perection. Being free of WAF, that could be dangerous.

Having babbled all that, if you don't notice anything wrong with your room, don't worry about it too much.


Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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