Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M22's or M60's with a subwoofer?

Like most all of you, I am thinking of various configurations in the Axiom lineup mixed with my existing equipment that would prove to give me the best performance with the least cost. So, I have a wonderful 12" powered subwoofer that can be used in combination with the Axioms I plan to buy. So my question to those of you who are familiar and experienced Axiomites follows. I listen most exclusively to classical music. Perhaps I will add on to what ever foundation of a system I have to expand into surround for my sacd's and audio dvd's and for home theater. In any case, for now, I want to concentrate on stereo audio. What then would be the difference should I chose between the M60's and M22's in terms of sound. for instance would the M60's give me a fuller midrange and a little better bass with more impact used with my subwoofer, or would the M22's perform as well? The difference in cost (and I am also thinking of the M50's) is quite a bit and to some it may be worth the cost for the 60's or even the 80's. I am unable to audition any speakers; no one in Los Angeles has come forward to offer a listen, so any detailed subjective or objective (if that is possible)response is welcome...Thanks...Lee

Lee, If you always listen with a sub, I do not think you will notice any difference on the bottom end. I did not find much difference between the M22+ sub and M60 when doing an A/B comparison. At the time I felt there was a slight difference, but found it hard to characterize.

I did find that the M80 delivered the most detailed sound of the three. Others feel a little differently.

Don't forget to factor in a stand when you consider the M22.

Lee, as far as someone "coming forward" to offer an audition, although that does happen on occasion when the request is seen, generally the burden is on you to make contact by way of a PM to someone in the area, as shown in the audition thread list.

My music listening also is almost entirely classical and I can assure you that the M22s supported by a good sub(EP500 in my case)do a superb job, including pipe organ recordings. I haven't heard the M60s, but there would appear to be no reason in theory why they would have a "fuller midrange"(whatever that means). The M22s use two 5 1/4" drivers to cover that while the M60s use one 5 1/4". Frequency response graphs indicate that both are substantially flat there and are neither "full" nor depressed.

Ok, thanks for both your views. In fact I haven't used my subwoofer for some time. The sub amp needs a little repairing and it is in the hands of of a skilled technician now. In any case, I have three more questions...what is a "PM"...I'm really not up to speed with these designations. Additionally, Fred...do you think the M80 will do the job on its own w/o a sub? Alan indicated to me that the M80 will do a superb job for all but the most demanding lower frequencies, but with the addition of a sub, the lower end will have more punch and most probably be better balanced with the rest of the sound coming from the speaker. In your opinion, given that I have the funds (and I do) is the cost differential between the 80's with or without the sub and the M22's with the sub worth it? I am careful with $, that's probably why I can afford the 80's....Thanks...Lee

Lee, "PM" is Private Message. If you click on your name you'll see that one of the choices is "send a PM", which you'd title and address to a specific board member. In the "Hearing Things" section there's an auditioning thread that contains a list of those who've indicated a willingness to show off their Axioms. The list may not be entirely up-to-date, however, and a PM may not get noticed if they're inactive. Sometimes Axiom can assist in arranging an audition if they're contacted directly.

Hi Lee. Since music including SACD seems to be the main focus of your system I thought you might find this helpful in deciding between tower or bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer.

http://www.soundstage.com/surrounded/surrounded200307.htm

A few personal observations. The M80s are fantastic w/o a subwoofer. However, since you already have a subwoofer getting a couple M22s will in my opinion work almost as well. In my opinion the extra cost of the M80 is not worth it unless you have a really big room and want to fill it with loud sound.

Besides cost saving (for use elsewhere in your system) bookshelf speakers are often easier to place due to size. Using the subwoofer for lower bass allows you to place the subwoofer for the best bass response while your bookshelf speakers can be placed for best imaging.

I have both M80s and M22s and have compared them closely. While I doubt I’d get rid of my M80s I know that I would be perfectly happy if all I had were my M22s and subwoofer. The only thing the M80s give me that the M22s can’t is the directional feel of bass impacting on me from the front speakers which makes for more realistic explosions in movies. In my opinion for music the M22s and subwoofer actually sound better due to freedom of placement than the M80s in my last listening room, your mileage may vary.

Since you already have a subwoofer, if you got M22s you could put the money you save into getting 2 or 3 additional M22s for a 4.1 or 5.1 setup for your multi-channel SACD and DVD-A discs.

You might also consider using QS4s or QS8s as surrounds. While they are technically a compromise for multi-channel music I find that most of the surround tracks on my 5.1 SACDs are carrying ambient/reflected sounds from the venue recorded in, and the QS speakers are ideal for reproducing this.

Cheers,
Dean

Absolutely! I was quite surprised that I could not hear the difference between the M80s with and without a sub on a number of discs.

What I found when switching directly between the M22+sub and the M80 on its own is that the low end opened up with the M22+sub and the upper end opened up with the M80. By opening up, I mean that the music took on a more life like quality such that you felt you were listening to the band not a recording. The M80s did deliver more detail on the top end. Perhaps this is what 'opens up' the top end.

If you put the above two observations together I would say the differences between the two are quite subtle and not easily heard unless you do a direct comparison.

For movies, and if you listen to any music with an appreciable amount of low bass from pipe organ, you will notice a difference between having a sub and not, even with the M80.

If you watch any movies, you will benefit from both the sub and surrounds. I set out to create a music first system, and I did, but was amazed by the impact that a good system has on movies. I am actually watching more movies than I thought I would because of this.

So, different? Yes, but subtle. Worth it? Thats hard to say. I do not regret what I spent, but, like Dean/grunt I could probably be happy with the M22 as well.

Till upgradeitis hits and then you would be buying the M80s anyway. The M22s are still worth the initial purchase just to be used in other rooms of the house.

Gee, you guys like to keep us on our toes!

Worth it is a very personal thing Bob. Perhaps I should qualify that I found it worth it for me, but the differences are subtle. I do understand where Dean is coming from though.

I had the money for the full deal so I went for it. If I didn't the M22+ sub would still offer most of the value of the M80.

This stuff is hard to put into words. If you look at Alans posts, you will see a similar pattern.