Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler I'm Young, I'm Naive. Where to move after college?

Well, Graduation is approaching. One of my top job opportunities I have available enables me to work remotely, programming from wherever I so choose. This gives me the ability to move...well..anywhere.

While I don't really like working remotely a lot...it does give me the ability to try living in various places around the states.

Even if I don't land a job where working remotely is possible, I can concentrate my job-hunting efforts towards certain locales...and hopefully find a job in a good location.

Because I'm probably one of the youngest (as I know of) regular members here, I thought I could ask the knowledgeable (and older and wiser...) Axiom Family :-).

Here's a little bit about where I've lived my life...

Places I've lived

Chicago
I'm a Chicago Native. I love the city, but had the massive "suburbia" getting more and more packed and crowded. If I had a choice, I think I might like living in the city and not having a car.

Indiana
I go to school in the middle of Indiana. Upland to be exact. Besides the advantage of living in a fireworks-legal state with plenty of breathing room in farmland country, there is nothing to do for a single guy like me. It's a 20 minute drive to the nearest Wendy's. If I became a family man I might like the ability to buy a nice, private, big property for a low price, but I'm not at that stage in life yet.

Southern Florida
The previously mentioned company is based in Southern Florida, and I lived there last summer, and didn't like it as much as I thought. It. Was. HOT.

While I appreciated the weather somewhat and was indoors coding in the dark during the hottest parts of the day, being 85-95 degrees every day kinda got old. Going to bed in a sweat wasn't my favorite...and I had a huge ceiling fan above me.

Besides, one can go to the beach only so much. I did enjoy the fact that I could possibly go cycling all year round, or smoke cigars outside all year round, or just have the ability to be outside for a nice walk...but even at night it would be hot and muggy.

Places I'm scoping out

Colorado

I love the mountains. I've been backpacking with my dad and by myself in Rocky Mountain National Park on over 6 separate occaions. If I had a choice right now, I would be living either in Estes Park or Boulder right near RMNP. However, while I know I'll love the summers, I'm not sure how I'd like the winters being so close to the mountains (5 feet of snow anyone?)

Seattle, Washington

Mostly the reason I'm considering Seattle is because a friend works at Amazon, and referred me to them for a possibility at a position. Even if I do or don't get anywhere with Amazon...I started researching the location. They have mountains. Check. It's possible to enjoy the weather all year round. Check.

But...the weather thing comes with a catch...isn't it rainy and wet all year? Like, raining all the time? So, that means outdoor adventures or anything might get cut short by an annoying rainfall?

My professor even said in class that Idaho was the "best kept secret" of the US, because he loved it there. Who knows.


Final Thoughts

Basically, I want some place where I can truly enjoy the location, have a good atmosphere for connecting with people and doing stuff, be somewhat near civilization, and not spend gobs of cash doing any of the above.

I know you guys have had your own sets of experiences and location-hopping, so I'd love to hear any suggestions you guys have. Thanks a lot!

I think with the economy the way it is, a number of extra programmers, IT people now on the loose, I would be happy with a job anywhere I could get one.

An Aunt of mine was married to a man in the US AirF. years ago(so she moved around alot)...she presently lives in Washington St near Seatle, but has lived in Hawaii, North Carolina, Florida, Alaska and Arizona(I believe). The one place she said she loved the most was Alaska believe it or not. The west coast is quite expensive which could be a consideration for you otherwise Washington St or Oregon would be nice, I'm sure Colorado would be nice too.

I'll offer what little advice I have. I live in the middle of nowhere in Illinois, but my wife and I travel a lot and thus I have a few opinions....

Chicago is a wonderful city. You know that already. But if it's too packed and crowded for you, check out Milwaukee. Milwaukee has the lake, the same climate, and is only an hour(ish) away from your friends & family in Chicago. It's big enough to be a 'city', so there are plenty of things to do and keep you entertained. But it's small enough that you can easily get away from the sprawl.

Colorado. Amen, brother. I have family that lives in Boulder, and I visit as frequently as I can. We just about always visit RMNP and EP when we're there. Should a good job opportunity open up along the front range, I'm *there*. But there's a catch, and that catch is property values. The front range (Denver-Boulder) area is a *damn* expensive place to live. And there are a *lot* of people trying to live there. My uncle is a realtor in Boulder, and let me tell you, unless you're living way out on the plains, get ready to spend absurd amounts of money for property. Now with the economy in shambles, those values are falling. Maybe things are changing. Check out Fort Collins though. Lovely town, near the mountains, not too absurd prices. EP would be a fun place to live, but only if you really like winter. But like everywhere else that has to deal with winter, the city & people are prepared for it and it's not too bad. It is an awfully touristy town to actually live in. You'd be inundated with bus loads of tourists from May until October. That would annoy me.

I have also heard that Idaho is a 'gem' of a place to live. Rugged beauty of Colorado without the explosive property values and massive influx of tourists. I've also heard the same about parts of Montana.

I can't really offer any advice on the other places you listed. I have another uncle that lives near Portland, Oregon and routinely tells us all how perfect & beautiful it is there. I have another friend that lives in Seattle and has also commented many times that he absolutely loves the city. Never been to either, however.

Other places? That's a tough one. There are many 'cool' places to live.

One city that's always fascinated me is Vancouver, BC. Yes, out of the country. No, I've never been there. But I've known a few people who have, and one person that lived there for awhile. It's a beautiful city and I've heard many wonderful things about it. The people I've known who have visited all seem to say, "yeah, such a beautiful place. I'd love to just move there". Plus it's Canada. We all know how cool Canada is.

I've been to Asheville,NC a few times and it has always seemed like a neat place to live as well. Again, mountains & a lot of outdoor activity, but with a toned-down Winter. The 'vibe' felt a lot like Boulder there. You're also just a few hours away from the ocean - handy for weekend trips to the beach. Plus the people. There is such a thing as southern hospitality, and rarely have I met as many nice people as I did while in Asheville. No sweeping generalizations here.

I have another group of cousins that live in the Baltimore, MD area. They also seem to have generally positive things to say about the area.

Places I don't like? Atlanta. I've been there a couple of times and it just felt like a cluster-#&%@ of a city. Traffic was always horrible and I felt stressed the whole time I was there. It just seemed really hard to get from point A to point B. I've heard/read that the population growth of Atlanta in the past decade has outpaced the infrastructure, and that's exactly what it felt like when I was there. I just didn't find a lot of charm there.

Another no-go for me personally is NYC. Yes, *the* great NYC. I've visited a few times and really felt like it was just a dirty, crowded, over-rated place. I picked up absolutely none of the charm that I've found in other cities like Chicago, New Orleans, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Denver, Kansas City, etc. Just felt like I was surrounded by millions of angry people who all hated each other. A few million people are now lining up to throw me in the East River, but that's how I feel. Sue me, I'm a midwesterner.

I'm sure you'll get many more opinions on the matter. Take mine with a grain of salt. One thing I would say is to slow down and enjoy the process of deciding. At the risk of sounding like an old man, it's an exciting time of your life. Enjoy it!

Best of luck with your decision!

I look forward to seeing the other responses.

Peter, I have been to Vancouver (my parents live in nearby White Rock) and it is indeed a nice city. Surrounded by the coastal mountains and the ocean on the other side with a very moderate climate. Having lived in Southern Ontario most of my life, the people on the west coast(and I think this goes for the US too) are much more laid back than here. That's not a knock against Toronto by any means, it's also a beautiful city in it's own right, but the nicest areas in Ontario are mostly up in our cottage country(ask the folks in Dwight!!). For me, the summers in Northern Ontario are hard to compare.

Vancouver is nice but shares a bit of the same weather pattern as Seattle, although I do believe Vancouver gets more sunshine in the summer. If you are interested in Canada as a possiblity, Calgary is great, similar to Denver/Boulder with our proxiity to the Rockies but with out all the snow, or so I have heard from those that have lived in both. You just have to get used to our non-weather patterns, winter in April or August and spring in January or February, we just had several days at +14C after a few weeks in -20C. We do see lots of sunshine inspite of the weather changes.

Amen!


If you have the option of working 100% from home; how about moving to each of those cities that interested you for a few month? Sooner or later you'll find the right place for you.

Upon driving through atlanta...ugh. Hot. No ocean breeze (that made my stay in Florida bearable with the heat).

Alaska! That would be extreme, but interesting. I'm sure my sleep schedule would get messed up with the sun being out for more than 20 hours or less than 4 depending on the season. Hmm...

North Carolina seems like a nice place, I should look into that too. It's been in the back of my mind but I never really considered it that much. Southern hospitality sounds great :D.

Canada *might* be a stretch...I might have to get over some fun rivalry I've always had with some Canadians...and to "convert" and become one of them? Ha.

One of the nice things is that I have a few friends that definitely want to move somewhere else...so I might be able to take some friends with me wherever I go :D.

Thanks for the input you guys! This is kind of the time in my life where I think I know what I want to do, but I don't. Often I can get "tunnel vision" towards a goal, build that vision up over time, then wonder why that was my goal in the first place.

Thought of that too :-). Might be an odd mentality since I wouldn't want to "settle down."

I work in North Carolina now (I like it)...
I live in Indiana (LOVE IT)...

There is a lot to do in Indiana if you live by Indy. IMHO, it is the best kept secret of the Midwest. A big town (13th largest city in the USA) with small town feel, accessibility, and all those small town intangibles.

Also, it's dirt cheap to live here!

PS - 20 mins for Wendy's!!!! No Way! Unless you live 100 miles from Indy. You can be in a 4 star restaurant in less than 20 mins!.

Cool topic, Dan. Thanks for the opportunity to share in your adventure.

I am horrified that the availability of craft beer was not listed in your priorities.

I generally agree with Adrian's observations; I have found that folks on the West Coast are literally "friendly" and pretty unreserved compared to some other parts of the US.

Having lived my whole life in the Seattle/Tacoma metropolitan area, I can assure you that the claims of relentless rain are overstated. However, there is no such thing as "clear and cold" here. Seasonal Affective Disorder is real, and it is mostly gray from October through April. It is very expensive to live in or near Seattle. The public transportation is practically nonexistent. Microsoft, Starbucks and Boeing are laying people off. Traffic is bad.

AND

There are few US cities as beautiful and culturally rich as Seattle. Puget Sound, the Pacific Ocean and the Cascade Mountains are ridiculously close. The people are great. The weather is never extreme; it only snows about twice a year, and it rarely gets above 90F. June through September are reliably 75-80F, with sunsets at about 10:00 pm. It is not humid, and there is very little wind except during storms. Opportunities for outdoor activities are boundless. There is an excellent mix of cultures, and there is no income tax. Beer culture flourishes. Insects are small and not overwhelming. No poisonous creatures west of the mountains. No hurricanes, no tornadoes. You get accustomed to the idea that "it might rain" and plan accordingly.

Others:

I have family in Colorado Springs. Great scenery, MANY days where the sun shines. The beer and the people are wonderful. Things I don't like - the wind blows a lot. You're as far away from salt water as you can be in North America. Sprawl is 1970's California all over again. It is really dry, to the point where my skin isn't happy after a few days. Schizophrenic weather.

Vancouver BC is a wonderful, cosmopolitan, scenic wonder of a city. It is also wicked expensive. The weather is worse than Seattle.

Idaho might be trendy and cute, but there is no civilization there. None. If you are even remotely interested in the cultural opportunities available in a real city, you will be horrified. If you just want to be left alone and you don't mind skinheads, Idaho is a great place to live.

I adore Portland, OR. Great city - a lot like Seattle, but even more laid back, and with more parking and functional public transit. Also pretty expensive. Compared to Seattle, the proximal snow skiing is not quite as good, but Oregon beaches are better than Washington's (and also about the same ~3 hours away). There's no salt water, but the Willamette and Columbia rivers converge there. Portland lacks some of the "wow factor" of Seattle, and it is also probably not as multicultural. If "my people" weren't in the Puget Sound area, I would seriously consider a move to Portland or to Vancouver, WA which is right across the river.

At the end of the day, there is no substitute for California.

I lived in Redmond WA for 5 months during the spring & summer; love it! It wasn't that rainy. It's definitely the best summer weather I've been by far. ...And , man, do I miss those Mac & Jacks ales!

What the @#^% are you talking about Tom?!? We Floridians New Yorkers are the friendliest &*(@!%&%^ people one will ever meet ... anywhere!



Believe it or not, in my 51 years of existence there is one place in the US that I have always been intrigued with, that's Seattle along with the whole northwest coast area and I've never been there. One day!

IIRC, there is some tech in Boise, so that might appeal to your Idaho thought.

Colorado is a good option. So are Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver BC. All have some sort of tech industry. Now it's a bit bad, but the market will come back some day.

For me, I never want to shovel snow and I'm a California West Coaster. I would love to try San Diego, but the job market there isn't that great.

Come on out, Rick. We'll have fun. Maybe go salmon fishing or something.

Rick uses grenades to fish with

Seattle is one of my favorite cities,
It has tons of culture and things to do, the city is clean and feels safe, there are more restaurants in Seattle per capita than anywhere I've ever seen, and the population seems young and healthy.
The only thing that drives me crazy there is the parking (maybe Tom can explain it) why the #$%# does everyone park facing whatever which way they feel like, I can never tell if I'm on a one or two way street.

Terribly sorry. I take that for granted because there is a really nice joint about 25 min away that has 50 craft beers on tap, all for $2-3 less than a bud light at any other establishment. And 300 bottles. And you can still enjoy a cigar there (one of the last few places).

California has "it all" the beaches, the mountains...I'm just leery of the strict laws and high prices out there...

The midwest, Iowa, is a great place to live and raise a family, oh wait, your not married yet.

Not one vote for Hawaii?? Maybe its because I am Canadian and we have nothing tropical here, but thats where I would head.

Toasty during the day, comfortably cool at night, lots of warm salt water to loaf about in...

Vancouver is a great city, but everyone in Canada wants to live there so its expensive. I would still be living in Banff in the Rockies of you could own property there (national park).

You guys in the US have a lot of interesting locations to choose from from the tropical to the damn cold. If I were you Dan, I would test out a few locations while you are young and mobile.

Isn't there an issue with migrating to Canada, like, you have to have a job there or something?

I would agree w/ Fred. Try different places. Sounds like you're a programmer that can telecommute. Take advantage of that while you can. When you're settled down, it's much harder to be mobile.

One of the best jobs I had was in international tech sales. I traveled (on the company dime) to the UK, Germany, Canada, Korea, and all over the US (including Hawaii). As a single guy, I spent about 2 weeks of the month gone. I only paid rent and barely put miles on my car. My monthly personal expenses ended up bing VERY low because I was gone so much. My GF was busy w/ a doctorate so it worked out. My boss let me take weekends off in other countries so that made it even better, I could vacation for a few days a week. I miss doing that.

California is great for the variety. Sun, sea, mountains, snow, all w/ in driving distance. It can be as liberal or conservative as you want. The only downside is that you have to be ready to put ~40% of your income on housing, sad fact of California life. We do pay to live here.

I do know a few s/w contractors that have lived in the Pacific Northwest but worked for companies in the SF Bay Area. Silicon Valley pay w/o the cost of living. Not a bad idea.

I've lived in California my entire life, and I think I've taken it a bit for granted, but there is just about everything to do out here. Yeah, like Cesar said, housing is exorbitant out here. The weather is almost darn near perfect in SoCal. LOTS of people, though.

So far, the one place I'd really like to move to is Colorado. I spent some time in Ft. Collins a couple summers ago. Peter mentioned it, and I agree with him, plenty to do and a very nice city to live in. Talking to the locals, it snows there, but doesn't stick to the ground.

On a side note. . .next week is my last week in California. My job has moved me to Arizona and I'll be driving out to Glendale next Friday!


Good luck deciding where you want to go Dan.

At least you're making it out Arizona in time for spring training. Motorola was a customer in Tucson. Their office was literally across the street from the Angels camp. Though I'm not SoCal team fan, as we Norcal guys typically are... Beat LA! Which, BTW, means anything south of Monterey. HA!

They told me they'd eat hot dogs for lunch at the stadium and watch a few innings. Now THAT'S a lunch break.

I think you're actually supposed to move to Rancho Cucamonga to take Sean's place. We're going to miss saying it.

I'm a huge Angels fan, so I'll be able to catch some spring training!

I'll miss saying it too.

You can always put up a "Rancho Cucamonga" plaque over your front door, that way you can still live there and we can still say it.

You know, I used to think that was a bbq sauce or something.

"Pass the rancho cucamonga will ya."

That's a pretty good idea! I like it, and just might do it.

Today I went snowboarding for the day in the foothills near Yosemite, away from Tahoe. Takes about 3 hours door to door to get to Dodge Ridge.

Snowed the past 2 days, in some places there was about 1' to 2' of fresh. Ahhh... Not too crowded either. Stayed around 35 to 40 degrees F but the sun was out most of the time. Cold enough to keep the pow but warm enough for me w/ only a shell and 2 wool tshirts.

Came back home and it's 65 degrees. That's why I live in California!

It was beautiful today! Partly cloudy, but also partly sunny at times and the fresh snow was stark white on the mountaintops! I shoulda snapped a pic.

I'm jealous, Cesar, I haven't gone skiing in years!

Not really warm, not too cold, cloudy.... A typical Ontario winter day. Blah....

Cool thread! Lots of good input from folks.

+1 for Asheville and Portland. My visits there have been great. Asheville is a liberal pocket in an otherwise rural and conservative part of the South. I don't want to veer too deep into the sensitive areas of politics and religion, but for me, each place has a vibe and energy to it, and I have to make sure that I'm not gonna have to swim too hard against a cultural current.

Athens, Georgia is probably my favorite town/small city. It's hard to capture the Zen of the place in a paragraph, but there's a 30-year strong music scene and a sense of activism in the community. It has the University of Georgia, so there's tens of thousands of young people to hang around with. It gets warm and humid there, to be sure, but winters are mild, and you can use a convertible almost year-round. You would have to get an education on the SEC and college football, though.

Austin, TX is a city I have been longing to visit. I'm sure it compares favorably to my beloved Athens.

If you are picking somewhere and planning to settle there for a while, pick a location that has other tech jobs if you want to avoid moving again. It would not surprise me if you are at this job for two years or so and are ready to move on to something else, in order to get more responsibility/pay. A lot of my friends are in a tech field and that seems to be the way it works. Hopefully in two years that economy will be turned around and there will be new opportunities out there.

Be happy that you have a job offer in the current economic climate!

Sure is. Its got me playing what if, even if I have not intention or moving.

The cost of living in Tulsa and Oklahoma City is great.

Lots to do. You can choose to live in the city or in a slightly more rural area and still have only a short drive. Not as glamorous as living at the beach, but a very good place to live IMO.

The internet is your friend and will likely yield alot of info for you. JUst be sure to work your way through the ethnocentrism (I" I live HERE, so it's the best place to live").

Make a list of what is important to you and plan your research around that.

Your current age and excitement may not encompass the following thoughts, but they will become important as you get older. The financial implications of your choice can be helpful or devastating over time. Consider:
1) The relative cost of housing So. Cal MUCH more expensive than So. Carolina).

2) Taxes. State Income Tax, Property Taxes, Other types (tax on cars every year, for example).

3) Is the area growing or declining? Impacts 1 & 2 above.

4) How is the education system for children?

5) Family activities.

Just some thought starters.

Kaiser is trying to recruit my wife for a job opening on the Big island in Hawaii, unfortunately she doesn't want to move

Sell the wife!

I love Hawaii, the beach, board sports, the music, the food, the attitude.

But living there full time, I'd go out of my mind. Too small...

Austin is a good call - I'd live there.

Of course I have to consider if a woman ever gets involved. They always have a tendency to interfere with a man's well intentioned and free-roaming plans.

The big island is actually pretty big. No, not like living on the mainland but there is alot of variety that the other islands dont have.

My ideas are pretty close to Tom's. I have visited Seattle and Portland and love them both. I might lean a little more towards Portland as a place to live though as I think it is a little less expensive.

If you need any information on Alaska, just shoot me a note. Unless a person has actually lived here, don’t believe what they say about the state. I find a lot of amusement in the stories I hear about this state.

A couple things to consider when looking for a place to live…

1) money / employment
2) climate
3) population
4) hobbies
5) scenery / landscape

Alaska has taken the economic hit fairly well, but it’s rolling up here now too. The climate here is harsh, to varying degrees. It all just depends where you end up. It’s a big state. The most densely populated area is the city of Anchorage. It’s nothing compared to Denver or the other insane cities throughout the US. Get outside of Anchorage and you can literally drive for a hundred miles without seeing another human being. If you like to hunt / fish, this is where you need to be. No other state can offer what this one can. You are severely limited to many other main stream activities though. Golfing comes to mind. The scenery is my favorite part of the state. There’s no other place like it in the world. No sense even trying to describe it, as you just have to live it.

I’ve been hear for 25 years and I do love the state, but I’m looking for property elsewhere. I want four seasons. I want a swimming pool in the back yard, but have snow on the ground Christmas morning. I want to see mountains, and not many street lights. I’m going to upper state Idaho this spring looking for a chunk of land on a mountain side over looking a lake. I’ll let ya know what I find.

Coeur d'Alene and the surrounding area is amazingly beautiful. Also, two of my uncles -- who used to live down the street from each other -- both moved to Star Valley, Wyoming about 4 to 5 years ago and they're both really happy with their new digs.

Thanks for the plug, Tom!

I love Austin, but based on Dan's distaste for what he experienced in the Florida summer, I think he'd hate the summer here. Not as humid, but I will admit that weeks of 98F+ wears on people. But, having said that...

Great univesity town with tons of stuff to do. Live music capital of the world (well, at least we claim that). It's the capital, so plenty of politics for those so inclined. Incredible number of outdoor activities to engage in, even in that summer heat (you just learn to do some things early or late in the day). Gotta acknowledge that there's no skiing around here, but most folks go to Colorado to ski, or to escape the summer heat. Housing is not cheap, but not California levels either.

I could go on and on. I've lived in the Northeast (CT and NY), and the Bay Area, and other than missing being near the ocean, I can sincerely say that I love Austin more than any other place I've lived.

Rich

Austin's a good choice. I can attest for the great college town, bars and music. Heck, if you're a programmer, you already know about SXSW.

Plus you can get some good ol' Texas brisket there. Granted I went to the Salt Lick, which is like the Hard Rock of Texas BBQ but it was still pretty good.

I am not one for the heat though. Dry heat or wet heat, it's still hot. I like my temperate climates.

I would love to attend SXSW sometime. Seems like a lot of fun.

Dan, you mentioned, maybe not seriously, that you might be able to take some of your friends along with you. A significant consideration is possibly the comfort of staying home near friends and family if employment permits, at least early in your career, and visiting other areas from time to time.

Be that as it may, one area that impressed me greatly when I visited, and hasn't been mentioned, is Santa Fe, New Mexico. Beauty and culture.

If I was going to do it all over, I would be moving somewhere very usual or exotic. I don't necessarily mean a hot climate but one with a very different culture. Now that I'm older and settled into a career path (Ok, I almost had a chance to do this over but I think I survived this round of layoffs.) it is tougher to give up your house, friends and job to do anything but short vacations.

I'm not telling you to hitch hike across Africa or anything but nowdays the job markets have to be as good or better in many foreign countries as they are here at home. There is always time to settle back into a nice cozy hometown career later. Take advantage of a fresh start and get out there and experience the world !!!!!

I wholly agree w/ Murph.

Wow.

In the history of mankind, no one EVER has typed those words before!

+1 Santa Fe.

Make sure to pick up a copy of Old Coyote at the Hotel Santa Fe gift shop.

+1 for exotic travel. You have a golden opportunity!

New Orleans is like the Wild West of the early 1900's. Plant your flag, take some land, build high, and go make a living. Free money everywhere if you will employee people, tech jobs all the rage, and you can stay drunk 9 of 10 days without much of a social stigma. (If you need to put a kid in school, plan on a second job.)

But it does get hot as . . . well it's real hot and humid in the summer. Otherwise, all candycanes and gumdrops.

Edit: well, candy canes, gumdrops, and criminals. We got a few criminals in town.

Umm, how do you know this Charles?

Your politicians too

What about some good jambalaya?

It all depends on your personality, but if you are adventurous I would agree with Murph.

I have lived, at least briefly, in various parts of Canada. You really can't get to know an area until you live in it for a while.

At the age of 24 I spent a month in Hawaii. Barely scratched the surface! You could easily spend a couple of years there exploring...

Axiom is in Canada.

Move near Axiom.


Simple as that.

Though in all actuality, the area Axiom is in, is quite a beautiful area of the country.

Hey, I just got my copy of the book today, but I didn't go to Hotel Sante Fe.

Please let me know what you think!

Well never using a slash, anyways.

Yeah, like I said, criminals. Here the word criminal and politician means the same thing: "he/she who feeds off the hard working people in the same general vicinity." And Dan brings up a good point, jambalaya and crawfish and turtle soup, etc., etc., go well with the candy canes and gumdrops...and beer and hurricanes (the drink).

I need a drink. Perhaps I'll run by Pat O'Briens for lunch.

It'd be easier if you went inside and sat down.

Eat at Pat O's, no thanks. Drink, sure, eat, not so much.

+100 for California.

Another 1 day trip to boarding. Today it snowed about 8" to 10" while I was there for about 6 hours. It's pouring here in the Bay Area now. Sadly, too little too late to solve our drought problems.

But tomorrow I will be heading a few miles from my house to catch the 3rd stage of the Tour of California. I will be cheering on Lance Armstrong and the other int'l riders on part of the route. His only race in the US. Granted it'll be a lot of effort for literally seconds of spectating but I don't get to watch this level of riding live except for once a year.

Update on my various roamings.

- South Florida is wearing on me, time to leave.
- Visiting the friends in the Northwest (Washington State) and going on a beer tour of Portland and Seattle. Scouting how I like that area of the country, been there a few times, but mostly just national parks, not cities.
- Going to Europe (Flying into amsterdam, out of greece) for 3 weeks. Don't really have a plan. Just going to couchsurf and hostel-hop across the lands with a buddy. Learning bits Dutch, Italian, and German to fit in, and not expect everyone to speak English to us. Should be a great time of exploration of ourselves and of Europe.
- Packing up, and moving to Colorado. Hopefully ending up in the Boulder area. I left my heart in the Rockies, going to find it once again.

Dan, I think you'll like the NorthEast. I've got family in BC and Washington St and it's a beautiful area, friendly people(except for a guy with alligators in his basement ), but on the downside, I found the area extremely expensive.

If you are going to Germany, you must visit the Porsche Museum, Jah?

NorthEast of what, Adrian? Hawaii?

I have one of those Jack Sparrow compasses.

I just spent a week in Belingham Wa on a buisness trip. I liked it. Nice area, neat town, nice people, lots of cute girls, great beer (thanks Tom). Still too crowded for my tastes, but not too bad.

They're cute 'n cuddly alligators. Really. You should try petting them.

I haven't lived in many places in US, but I definitely liked San Diego. It is the nicest place I have been so far in US. The climate is really nice, lots of tourists and nice people!

Then again, it's the Northeast to Ichigo.

LOL my bad I just read the new messages. lol

Although it could be Northeast of Mexico then.

North, yes, but not Northeast.

I really enjoyed my visits to Seattle and Portland. Beautiful cities with nice, friendly people. A big plus for Portland is the great mass transit system. These cities may be too large for you but they did not seem that way to me as I have lived in Houston all my life.

Dan, if you get near Seattle, give me a call. We can get a beer or something

David's observation about Portland is appropos; it is 20+ years ahead of Seattle relative to public transportation.

But it doesn't have any salt water and the lakes are puny.

Living in the Pacific NW really depends upon how much gray you can handle. If you are used to clear and cold winters, you might have trouble with the lack of sunlight between November and April.

I continue to be envious that you have these choices and experiences in front of you.

Tom, I'm actually flying into Seattle midnight of the 18th. Friends live in midstate Washington, but we'll be touring around. If we stop by a bar on a weekend in seattle, that might work out.

I'll explain that you're my...internet family member. :-)

Oh, and, can you bring speakergrrl?

Great, Dan. I'll send you a PM.

And, no, I can't bring speakergrrl. Sorry.

My rambling journeys continue.

Went on a road trip (working all the way) from Illinois, to Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Missouri, and all over.

Have to say, Pittsburg has always surprised me every time I've been there. Great pig out food (Pimentis Sandwiches!), almost all places have good beer, and the vegan friend I stayed with noted that there were plenty of vegan and food-conscious places around.

Hilly areas for biking. And the place has history.

Anyways, after my short stint back at home (in Chicago) looks like I'm staying with friends back up in Yakima, WA and Vancouver, WA (right next door and over the river from Portland). I've joked to myself I might be doing a permanent triangle between the NW, Colorado, and Chicago. Seem to be my favorite places so far...

Claiming residency from FL, to WA, both state income tax-free states. Yahoo!

So Tom, looks like we might have a chance to grab a beer sometime soon, anyways. ;-)

Dan, welcome back and it's always nice to hear of your journeys. Since you mention income tax free Washington, it can be noted that the Vancouver area has a combo in that just across the river is sales tax free Oregon.

Excellent, Dan. Thanks for checking in!

Yes, the Vancouver/Portland area is pretty great from a cultural standpoint in addition to its tax status.

Let's definitely share a beer or a meal sometime. I'll PM you.

Also, CV is not that far from Yakima.