Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Do I need a center channel?

Current setup:

Axiom AX-5 fronts
Axiom AX-2 surrounds
Mirage MC-si center
Pioneer VSX-1018 7.1 Receiver
LG BH200 HDDVD/Bluray combo player

I'm in a real pickle. A good pickle, but a pickle nonetheless.

I really like the sound I receive from just the two AX5s and the two AX2s and phantoming the center channel. The AX5s and AX2s really match well together soundwise. However, being a stickler for the best home theatre sound, I found an old Mirage MC-si for a good price and set it up--not impressed.

The Mirage, as everyone will tell me, does not match perfectly with my AX5s but that's really not the issue. I can deal with the Mirage being a little brighter. What I can't deal with is the feeling that the center channel audio is "boxed in" and it makes the room feel as if most of the audio is coming only from a small section of the room while when I phantomed the center channel, it felt like there was audio all around me.

Is placement the issue here? Should center channels make you feel like the audio is only coming directly towards you from a 1.75' enclosure? Are my expectations too high? Maybe it's just the wrong speaker?

Thanks to all that reply.

Almost sounds like the levels for the center channel were set too high in comparison with the rest of the speakers. You might try recalibrating them all before giving up on it.

Phantom mode works great for people near the middle of the room, left to right, but those on the far edges can sometimes feel like all the sound is coming from the closest main.

Sometimes a center is nice if you find you are always playing with the volume. Turning it up during quiet dialog and then having to quickly turn it down during loud scenes. A good center calibrated evenly or just a db or two higher than the mains can often let you safely set the remote back down on the coffee table where it belongs.

In summary though, whatever sounds the best for you is the correct answer.

Hello letigre,

The only Mirage center I've heard was a bipolar model (front and rear-firing drivers) and it was very colored sounding. It certainly wasn't neutral and would not match your Axioms. Older Axioms were always quite neutral and natural sounding.

Tonal colorations on center speakers are very noticeable because our ears are ultra-sensitive to midrange coloration on dialog voices and vocals.

If the Mirage center isn't bipolar, then Murph may be correct about the level being set too high. I'm assuming you are listening in Dolby Digital 5.1 or Dolby Pro LogicII. Normally, only center-mixed dialog, vocals and instruments panned to the center will show up in the center channel. It's also possible the Mirage center is tonally colored and a poor tonal match.

Regards,
Alan

I think both you and Murph have great points. The speaker isn't a good match for me period...along those lines, I'm sure the levels aren't correct either.

I think I'm going to take it back. Question is, what should I replace it with? I'm assuming the newer Axioms are much brighter while the older Axioms are more flat and neutral. Ax 1.2 Center? Anybody have any suggestions? I'd love to grab a used one...

Axioms are neutral. You can easily ignore those who describe them as bright--most of them haven't heard them.

Maybe make a call to the 1-866 number shown at the top of the page and ask the folks at axiom.

Hi again,

kcarlile is correct. Actually, the new Axioms have smoother more linear response than the older AX series.

You could try a dedicated Axiom center channel such as the VP150, or with a budget in mind, a single M2 v2 or M3 v2. You can also save 10% by getting a B stock Factory Outlet version. These are not returns and are acoustically perfect and fully guaranteed. You have to wait a few weeks for the Factory Outlet models.

Regards,

And the VP100 is nearly as good as the VP150, IMO, and quite a bit cheaper as well, so you can also consider it to go with your older Axioms. Toss in the 30 day guarantee and you can order up one of the new Axioms try it out and if you don't like it ship it back for $20, IIRC, not a bad deal to try out a new speaker in your own home.

Hmm...all good ideas.

What is the consensus on the old Ax 1.2 center channel. If I could find one of these, would I not be perfectly matching the sound of my AX5s?

I went through several speakers used as centers without finding satisfaction until getting an Axiom M2 several years ago. I've been happy with that, and it just fits in the stand under my TV.

I guess As long as Alan is browsing the forums there is no need to call the 1-866 number

Thanks for your words of wisdom Alan.

Ha, ha. You're welcome. Just got back to the forums after doing some listening tests. More about those in the future.

Regards,

Alan

Listening to my new M80's right now. Sound a bit bright to me! Have to give it more time I guess.

Bob, come on now and start a thread about receiving your speakers! You are probably too busy calibrating and listening.
Bill

Hello Bob

I'm not sure of your definition bright, but may I suggest you listen to your new system in simple two channel mode with your favourite audio CD. Turn off the TV, return all equalization to flat, turn off all DSP modes, etc., and dim the lights, close your eyes and enjoy the music and just forget about the equipment for an hour or so. I think you will find the system less coloured this way. And by turning off the TV you can concentrate on the music along.
Remember you can tweek the system after you find the best position for the speakers when listening to a flat signal.


Hope you enjoy your new system to the fullest.
There’s nothing like the smell of new loudspeakers.

Hi Bob

You are going to find that with the M80's you will become much more critical of the recording process. As this speaker is very neutral it won't beat round the bush when it comes to bad recordings. The more expensive B&W (and other makes) speakers suffer / benefit from the same feature.

You will learn to tollerate bad recordings, and really love good ones. What will suprise you is some of you fav. songs may actually not be recorded as well as you like. And that just sucks!

paul

How true. I found that out when I started auditioning speakers over the last couple of months and finally stopped using one of my cd's all together for that reason.

Tigre, if you "really like" the phantom center with your present setup you should seriously consider staying with it and shouldn't assume that that a separate center speaker will always give you the "best" HT sound. As Andrew(Murph)mentioned, a separate center speaker does anchor center channel material to the center, even for off-center listeners, and does allow independently bumping the level up a bit to make dialog more clear in some movies. On the other hand, if the mains are playing the center they match of course, since they're the same speakers, and there's also the cost saving. If you do decide on a center, for wider and smoother horizontal dispersion you might consider a vertical M2 or M22.

Bob, you may well find now that many of your CDs suck and should be shipped to Goodwill. I of course stand ready to help you with suggestions of classical CDs which are worthy of your M80s.

Can I get an honest opinion on the Axiom AX 1.2 center channel?

letigre, I wouldn't expect that many around here have heard one. Most of us got Axioms after they started building the Millenia series.

Hi again,

I never heard the AX1.2 center. That was many years ago. While I was editor of Sound Canada and Sound&Vision (Canada) we did do double-blind tests of various Axiom bookshelf and tower models and they always scored very well, right up with the best PSB and Paradigm speakers and often garnered far higher scores than competing speakers from KEF and B&W, which were many times as expensive, often thousands of dollars more than the Canadian competitors.

That said, I suspect (and I'm just speculating here) that the AX1.2 center would be pretty neutral, like its bookshelf and tower siblings, but not as linear or as smooth as Axiom's current lineup, nor would it have the same high power handling as our current models.

Regards,

Alan

We suckered in another victim, fellas! Woo hoo!!!

*Runs around message boards high-fiving everyone but Bob*

Great job, everyone!

REFLECT!

*thpfffpth*

Thanks for all the input, kind Axiom'ers. I think I have enough ammunition now to make a wise decision.