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Re: Ideas on 31'L x 23'W room for fronts, 7.1 back
davekro #247510 02/17/09 10:07 PM
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 Quote:
You are aware, I will now need to search for or start a whole new thread on what kind and the absolute MOST perfect location for ceiling mounted

The what is dead simple: a pair of M22s. Just think, you'll be the first on your block.


Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
Re: Ideas on 31'L x 23'W room for fronts, 7.1 back
davekro #247527 02/17/09 10:51 PM
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 Originally Posted By: davekro


Zimm, in ceiling 7.1's never even crossed my mind. (amazing because it is a relatively short distance!) I like the idea of not trying to send the rear sound from so far back. Wow, this time I really do respect your position. (though my vision is is not quite back yet) ;\)


Well, your insurance company will appreciate that your party guest are not going deaf from trying to get a beer while you blast 190dB from the refig! I had in-ceiling surrounds in my old room. They solved a problem I could not fix otherwise. The all but disappear so the WAF is very high. As far as placement, just pick any distance from a THX or other suggestion. But really the placement will be driven by cost of running wire. If you have a one story your lucky. If not, you will have to figure out some cost issues that will offset the gains from cheaper speakers (no cabinet to worry about) and the direction of the rafters will drive costs.

For what it is worth, I had Klipsh 8" with swiveling 1" tweeter and a mid and high boost/cut and driver and tweeter indp swivel. I highly recommend the angle tweeter on whatever you go with as it lets you bounce the highs as you want to get the right reflection/direct sound. Without a cabinet, bass is a problem, so go for bigger woofers. I almost got the B&Ws. I found the Klipsch on sale and pulled the trigger and was generally happy with them - actually surprised how well composed they were even on 5 ch music. PSB also makes some in ceilings, but i think they are expensive. Speakercraft Aim 8 is also a finalist for me.


Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
Re: Ideas on 31'L x 23'W room for fronts, 7.1 back
fredk #247529 02/17/09 11:02 PM
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 Originally Posted By: fredk
 Quote:
You are aware, I will now need to search for or start a whole new thread on what kind and the absolute MOST perfect location for ceiling mounted

The what is dead simple: a pair of M22s. Just think, you'll be the first on your block.


Oh yea, Fred, the wife would LOVE a pair of M22's stuck to the ceiling in the middle of the room. ;o) And be careful, Zimm has a queasy stomach today after Mark's suggestion of QS8's on the ceiling in the center of the room.
(Zimm, keep that bucket close at hand. Some here would have you lose your cookies, just for sport! Remember, Doc's just sittin' back with his popcorn enjoy'n the show... ;o)


Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."
Re: Ideas on 31'L x 23'W room for fronts, 7.1 back
davekro #247535 02/17/09 11:18 PM
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There is always my Dolby Pro Logic set up from college - put the other pair right behind your head on the back of the couch or on the floor behind you. That my friends is real surround sound.


Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
Re: Ideas on 31'L x 23'W room for fronts, 7.1 back
Zimm #247546 02/17/09 11:46 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Zimm
For what it is worth, I had Klipsh 8" with swiveling 1" tweeter and a mid and high boost/cut and driver and tweeter indp swivel. I highly recommend the angle tweeter on whatever you go with as it lets you bounce the highs as you want to get the right reflection/direct sound. Without a cabinet, bass is a problem, so go for bigger woofers. I almost got the B&Ws. I found the Klipsch on sale and pulled the trigger and was generally happy with them - actually surprised how well composed they were even on 5 ch music. PSB also makes some in ceilings, but i think they are expensive. Speakercraft Aim 8 is also a finalist for me.


Zimm, a couple of thoughts stirred up here.
"Ceiling (no cabinet) spkrs have more trouble with bass."
I was concerned that my current in-wall side surr's w/8"woofer were too big, seeing most recommending smaller for better mids in surr's. Though my in-wall WG-150 (WaveGuide) are in the 3 1/2" deep wall (sound absorbant mat behind), I wonder if the play out as a smaller driver? The 1" alum dome twtr is moveable. Maybe I would be (almost?) as well served by not replacing these with QS8's??
http://www.ciao.com/M_S_WaveGuide_WG150W_Speaker__10043963#productdetail

I wonder how a Waveguide or similar 8" woofer, 1" tweeter as ceiling mounted backs might sound match with the existing direct firing side. Then how would those 8" woofer in-wall/ceiling surrounds would match up with the M60, VP150 fronts. Given this info, would I still get better side surr sound from QS8's and add 8" in-ceilings for 7.1 backs? So better timber match with sides and backs at 8" vs. QS8 sides w/ 8" (or other) ceiling backs?
I do have ceiling access, albeit tight, but I have been up there before. Wire routing would be pretty simple, just a dusty belly crawlin' job. Maybe I can get my wife to crawl in their to pass the wires thru...
It seems Axiom does not make an in-ceiling speaker.

This is an exciting new development, yet again! ;o)


Last edited by davekro; 02/17/09 11:57 PM. Reason: wire note

Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."
Re: Ideas on 31'L x 23'W room for fronts, 7.1 back
davekro #247551 02/18/09 12:59 AM
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Dave, they have ceiling mount brackets for the QS8's, if that "helps" \:\)

My experience (in my room, with my ears...) was that going from 5.1 to 7.1 (all QS8's) was not a tidal wave of change. However, going from old, leftover mismatched speakers as surrounds (for the 5.1) to the QS8's WAS a huge improvement.


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Re: Ideas on 31'L x 23'W room for fronts, 7.1 back
tomtuttle #247572 02/18/09 02:34 AM
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If you like your current waveguides, then I would move those to the ceiling and use QS8 on the side. I think the QS8 is so good on the sides compared to direct radiating that it is worth the upgrade; as Tom describes the quality is more noticeable than the number. Plus, you are saving on the rears and return shipping is low on those small speakers. If you can run the wires easy, in-ceiling is the way to go. (Not sure your budget, but the Klipsch had fantastic install ease. Cut a circle and that's pretty much it.
As for bass, I was happy with 8", and if you have in-walls already you know the drill. the sound is just not contained so it is harder to generate deep bass. Not a big problem with a good sub, but on 5 ch music, I could tell they were a bit thin. Not a huge problem as it is not a critical listening set up. I would give it a try this way. Less money out, better sound, not speakers on the back wall - win, win, win.


Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
Re: Ideas on 31'L x 23'W room for fronts, 7.1 back
Zimm #247589 02/18/09 04:05 AM
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Tom, Zimm,

Thanks for the ideas. Sounds like QS8's are a concensus for 'worth changing to'. I wonder how to go about finding a decent timber match to QS8 sides? Woofer size? I do like the idea of Speakercrafts swivel woofer and tweeter. Zim, any suggestions on a decent price to sound quality in the Aim8 level 1 thru pricey 5's? Or should I look at a smaller woofer? You Guys ROCK!
(I don't care what Mark, Fred, Dewd and Doc say. Loosers every one...) ;o) ;o) :o)


Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."
Re: Ideas on 31'L x 23'W room for fronts, 7.1 back
davekro #247594 02/18/09 04:21 AM
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I wouldn't agonize too much over timbre-matching the rear speakers. I would definitely get the qs8's for the surrounds and just install whatever in-ceiling speaker floats your boat for the rears. Vann's often has good sales on the Mirage Omnicans, which I kind of like the looks of. I have some of their inwalls in my kitchen and they sound pretty good, although not as good as a freestanding Axiom \:\)


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Re: Ideas on 31'L x 23'W room for fronts, 7.1 back
tomtuttle #247651 02/18/09 05:26 PM
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The T2 can be in-ceiling mounted then there would be a timbre match.


Jason
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