Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Sub: Klipsch vs Tannoy

hoping one of you can help me decide which sub to keep. i'm asking because:

1) I'm still pretty much an audio noob
2) I don't think I have great ears for judging sub quality
3) I never heard of Tannoy until it was given to me

Here's the dilemma.

I was given a 10in Tannoy sub that I could use to replace my old 8in Klipsch. They both sound pretty nice to me, which do you think is the best match for my Axioms?

My Klipsch - KSW 100 (1996)

frequency response 34Hz-120Hz±3dB
max acoustic output 101dB SPL
maximum acoustic output 101dB SPL
low pass crossover Continuously variable from 40-120Hz, 24dB/octave slope above 120Hz
subwoofer K-1048-K 8" (20.32cm) Fiber-composite cone
phase Switchable 0 or 180 degrees
enclosure material Medium density fiberboard construction (MDF)
enclosure type Bass reflex via side-mounted port
inputs 2) Line level RCA phono jacks, 1) Line level LFE (unfiltered) RCA phono jack and 2) High level speaker terminals
outputs 2) Line level RCA phono jacks (fixed 40Hz or 80Hz HP - 6dB/octave slope), 2) High level speaker terminals (fixed 100Hz HP - 6dB/octave slope)
auto power on 2 second ON delay, 15 minute OFF delay

My Tannoy - Arena (2007?)

PERFORMANCE
Output Power 300W RMS
Low Frequency Response 29Hz (-6dB)
Limit For Usable Output 16Hz
Input 2 x line level phono
Input Filter 2nd order low pass, 50Hz – 150Hz (-6dB)
Auto Mute After approximately 12 mins., in absence
of input signal
DRIVE UNIT
Driver Type 250mm (10”)
CONSTRUCTION
Enclosure Type Closed box
Enclosure Volume 20.0 litre (0.7 cu.ft.)
Additional Features Phase control, Crossover defeat switch for
LFE operation, Soft limiting to avoid overload,
LF extension control
Enclosure Dimensions (excluding feet) 445 x 350 x 210mm
(17.51 x 13.78 x 8.26”)
Enclosure Weight 13kg (28.7lbs)
Mains Voltage 120V nominal AC ~ 60Hz,
230V nominal AC ~50Hz
Mains Fuse 120V – T3.15AL/ 250V, 230V – T1.6AL/ 250V
Maximum Power Consumption 416VA

My Axioms

VP150
M22
QS8

I use the system 50/50 gaming/movies.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

If it was given to you, why not use both, you can never have to much sub bass. Or, are you saying you have to make a choice?


You don't mention what type of amp is in the Klipsch, but the 10" Tannoy goes lower, which is what you want for HT. Actualy, neither one of them go really that low, but they both should be ok for music.

I'd use both at the same time.

klipsch amp: 100w continuous into 4 ohms

i could use both, but it would be overkill for my space i think...and just another thing for me to fool with

> Tannoy goes lower, which is what you want for HT

ah, good to know. thx

there is no such thing as overkill when it comes to low bass. if you calibrate the subs to the same SPL as the other speakers, 2 will help even out the frequency response in the room, that is if they are opposite each other in the room. All you have to do is hook the "line out" on one sub, to the "line in" on the other sub, or use a splitter at the receiver "sub out" jack, and have two seperate cables.

+1 on using both for the reasons already outlined. Unless I missed something, it dosn't looke like the Tannoy goes lower. It lists a -6db point of 29Hz vs a -3db point of 34Hz for the Klipsh. They are probably pretty close in how low they go.

Hi Willy

Just some FYI, Tannoy, only next to B&W is the most popular speaker in recording studios in England, and probably the rest of the world. They are a very popular high end speaker manufacturer, again most popular in the UK.

I own a pair of Tannoy C6 bookshelf speakers I got cheap back in the early 90's (because they were white). They sound great, really clean and a very flat freq. resp.

I will admit, Tannoy isn't one of the first speaker companies I think of when you metion subwoofers. But based on my experience with the company, it should be pretty good.

paul

paul

ok I'm ready to get a new sub. I've been using the tannoy mentioned above but I need something for myself this xmas.

so, what should I get under $500 or so?

I was looking at HSU and SVS which are around $500 but also people see to like BIC subs like the one below which as cheap as it is seems to have better specs than I have now?

so, should I spend $500+ or save some money and get the BIC F12?

* Design: Front-firing 12-inch, 475-watt peak powered subwoofer
* Frequency Response: 25Hz - 200Hz
* Sensitivity: 90dB
* Drivers: 12-inch injection molded woofer with heavy duty surround
* Magnetic Shielding: Yes
* Gold-Plated Terminals:Yes
* Recommended Power: Built-in Amplifier Power: 475 watts Dynamic Peak, 150 watts RMS continuous
* Impedance: 8 ohms
* Dimensions: 17 x 14-3/4 x 17-1/4 inches (HxWxD)
* Weight: 42 pounds each
* Warranty: 5 years parts and labor

Elemental Design A-3 250

Hsu, SVS and eD are well-respected brands. I wouldn't hesitate to go with one of those in your price range. Personally, I'd get the Hsu VTF-2 Mk 3 for $568 including shipping.

I would be willing to bet that any of the Hsu, eD or SVS subs will sound better than the Bic. The question is will they sound X number of dollars better to you?

Rick, thanks checking it out.

Jason, that is exactly what I'm wondering too. I love my HT but I use it 99% for TV and Gaming...will I notice the difference anywhere but my wallet?

Also, I'm on carpet and the right wall of my room is open to stairs. Would any of these be better in that situation?

If I remember right my room is about 13x13.

Thanks a lot!

I'd bet you will feel the difference, for sure. I've had a few different subs, some store bought, most from ID companies. You get a lot more for your money when you go with the ID subs rather than the store bought ones.

thanks Rick but what I mean is will SVS HSU or ED be $400+ audibly better for tv/gaming than the BIC?. I know all of these will sound better than what I have now.

I like the ED you suggested as well, I feel like I want a 12 though as my current Tannoy is a 10.

Just because it's a 12" driver doesn't necessarily mean it will sound better and go deeper than a 10". I couldn't say if YOU will hear, feel, a $400 difference only you can decide that. When I went from a 12" Wharfedale to a 10" Hsu the difference was very dramatic. To me the extra paid was worth it.

Not all 10" drivers are equal.

Hi Willy,

Just a couple of guidelines on subwoofers. Other things being equal (and often they're not!), the larger the physical enclosure of the sub, the greater the potential it has to play deeper frequencies. It isn't just a matter of driver diameter. A poorly designed sub with a 12-inch driver might have far less bass extension if it was in an enclosure not designed around it than a smaller sub with a 10-inch driver that's correctly engineered. There are always trade-offs in subwoofer and speaker design.

Of course I'd rather you get an excellent Axiom subwoofer like the EP350 or EP500, but I understand if you you're on a budget. Hsu has a long history of well-designed subs, and they are built in China so they're less expensive.

By the way, I've never heard or tested a BIC subwoofer--maybe it's OK--but when I was a magazine editor in Canada some years ago, we tested a BIC bookshelf speaker at the National Research Council and it was one of the worst speakers we'd ever reviewed. Things can change in the speaker business with a change in engineers so that may have happened at BIC.

Regards,
Alan

I'm not really convinced that the BIC is going to be meaningfully better than the Tannoy.

Same here.

yeah and even if the BIC was great at that low a price point I'd always be wondering if I was missing something.

so thanks to Rick I spent some time looking at ED and the A2-300 looks like a good deal to me. any thoughts on that choice?

I would agree.

And looking back over the specs of the BIC, I notice that the claimed frequency response is not qualified by +/- dB, so BIC can claim anything they want. The "spec" is meaningless--not a good sign. The driver may move at 29 Hz, but it may be 15 dB down (-15 dB) from its output at 50 Hz, which means you won't hear anything at 29 Hz!

If frequency response is stated without the + or - dB qualification, it's a useless spec.

Alan

I haven't had that model but it gets great reviews. I have had the A3-300 and that is a very good sub, much better than the Hsu STF-3 it replaced. I now have the eD A5-350 and it's a beast.

I can only imagine in a smaller room the A2-300 will be a great addition to your current line up.

All I have read about eD subs is that they are incredible buys and I know you would most definitely notice the better SQ, even with only TV and Gaming, Gaming is nearly, if not equal to, as demanding on subs and surrounds as full action movies, especially those FPS games with lots of explosions and gun fire etc. Get the eD. I am pretty sure the Ed at 10" will be better than the Bic. A 12" driver from Axiom, eD, SVS, Hsu will be even that much better and even more noticeable than their 10" subs.

Just for reference on how much things can change with cabinet size and a very minor amp increase in a well designed sub:

I listened to Axiom's EP350v2 and compared it to their EP350V3 and a Paradigm DSP3100. The EP350v2(12" driver) was the weakest of the bunch, the DSP3100(10" driver) was quite a bit better in SQ and had more impact. The EP350 v3 was that much better again over the the DSP3100 and had a noticeable impact increase over the 3100; music SQ was about the same with the edge to the EP350v3.