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Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
#248897 02/25/09 01:34 PM
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Just curious if anyone has heard or compared the EP500, 600, or 800 to SVS PC13Ultra or PB13Ultra, or the PC12 series?


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
SirQuack #248898 02/25/09 01:38 PM
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Doesn't Jay (Jakewash) have one of those SVS subs ? I think he's auditioned it against an EP500 if I'm not mistaken.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
Adrian #248906 02/25/09 03:00 PM
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not sure, maybe he will jump on here..


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
Adrian #248907 02/25/09 03:03 PM
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Lets see if I can paste a link. I hope you know who craigsub is.

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
Adrian #248908 02/25/09 03:06 PM
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Haven't directly compared it against Axiom, but I have an older PB12 Ultra/2 and haven't found anything better. I have compared it against Velodyne, B&W, and Kliscph. I am told that the PC/PB13 digs a bit deeper, although I can't imagine that. Mine is pretty much flat down to 11 Hz.

Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
wilwom #248909 02/25/09 03:07 PM
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Randy, you should take a trip over to eD and report back on their subs.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
wilwom #248910 02/25/09 03:08 PM
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Here are some excerps from that link.

16. Axiom EP-500

Listening results: The EP-500 was one of the first subwoofers to stress linearity across its frequency band. What is somewhat ironic is it sounds more like the baby brother to the new PB-13 Ultra than do smaller SVS models. It is capable of surprising amounts of bass slam, and is excetionally articulate for music. Its down side is that is current price is rather expensive for the performance. Its up side is it is quite compact, and an excellent choice when space is a consideration.

Measured results: 20 Hz ... 97 dB ... 20-63 Hz average ... 107 dB

15. SVS PB-12 Ultra

Listening results: A terrific subwoofer considering its 2002 design. It remained competitive in the $1200 - $1500 arena until 2007, when it was replaced by the PB13-Ultra. The "old" Ultra was at one time a standard bearer for performance, and remains a solid mid pack subwoofer today.

Measured results: 20 Hz ... 102 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 109 dB

3a. SVS PB13-Ultra

Listening results: This subwoofer delivers incredible performance from a moderate sized box. It is almost on par with the larger Conquest and eD subs in terms of delivering palpable bass, and it is as articulate as the standard bearer Fathom 113. A great choice when one is looking for a combination of reasonable WAF and performance.

Measured results ... 20 Hz: 108 dB ... 20-63 Hz average: 113.5 dB


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
wilwom #248911 02/25/09 03:15 PM
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Jay has the PB13 Ultra, I'm sure he'll chime in when he reads the thread.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
Adrian #248912 02/25/09 03:26 PM
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Yeah, we all are familiar with Craig. \:\) He used to frequent Axioms forum.... I had read his sub review about a year ago, the PC13Ultra is the cylindrical version of the PB13...

Yeah Rick, I've been thinking about heading over to Newton the next time I catch a Nascar or Busch race. I like the looks of their new dual subs, one monstrous amp 1300 watts and two different cabinets for placement options.




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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
SirQuack #248919 02/25/09 04:26 PM
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I'll be in Newton on Sunday to play in a paintball contest at the new paintball field (weather is going to suck though), but I won't have time to head to eD... I will be in Newton every month, but the day is usually filled with me getting messy on the paintball field...


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
nickbuol #248920 02/25/09 04:32 PM
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Myrison (Jason) had both the PB13-Ultra and the EP600 in his room for a while and wrote a fairly extended review. While he had them, WhatFurrer, samandnoah and I all had the chance to get together and listen with him. He decided to keep the EP600 and later upgraded to the EP800.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
tomtuttle #248921 02/25/09 04:46 PM
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hmmm, interested to know why he got rid of the SVS


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
SirQuack #248925 02/25/09 05:15 PM
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As I recall, he felt that the PB13 had a slight performance advantage, but not enough to overcome the esthetics of matching speakers.

Jay has a PB13.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
fredk #248933 02/25/09 05:31 PM
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Randy, here is the thread that started with Mojo's review and also includes myrison's experience.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=208983&fpart=1

Here is a link to Mojo's notes.

http://twinbabyoracles.com/Mojo%27s_Comparison_of_Axiom_EP600_to_SVS_PB-13_Ultra.PDF


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
tomtuttle #248935 02/25/09 05:34 PM
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Yay, my web space gets some use.

Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axioms
CV #248936 02/25/09 05:39 PM
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You're there for us, man. Thanks.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
tomtuttle #248960 02/25/09 08:45 PM
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That's some pleasing penmanship.

Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
pmbuko #248964 02/25/09 09:11 PM
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Mojo gets the award for "Most Unique Review Presentation".

A handwritten review, scanned. And not to an image, but to a 5+MB PDF.

I love it! :-)


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
PeterChenoweth #248965 02/25/09 09:15 PM
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I hope Mojo comes back soon....


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
SirQuack #248980 02/26/09 12:01 AM
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 Originally Posted By: sirquack
I hope Mojo comes back soon....


Ditto!!


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
Ya_basta #248984 02/26/09 12:31 AM
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Yeah, but with a different avatar. That one freaks me out.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
tomtuttle #252254 03/17/09 08:11 PM
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Randy didn't you say you were near eD? They have some new subs out now

http://forum.edesignaudio.com/showthread...844422ff64&


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
jakewash #252542 03/19/09 06:43 AM
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Instead of creating a new topic, I was wondering if I could semi hijack this one.

I am going to be building a studio in the future, and I was wondering what is the best sub on the market for Music only? I do not want anything that is movie geared. So I am looking for a very flat response, and very articulate for mixing.

I was thinking the new EP400 would fit the bill very nicely as it is a sealed design...what are your guys' thoughts? Any brand will do, I just want the best musical sub I can buy.

Is sealed generally better for music than ported?


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
Hutzal #252543 03/19/09 06:51 AM
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I beleive the general consensus is sealed is better and the Fathom F113 is quite possibly the best one out there.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
jakewash #252552 03/19/09 10:48 AM
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Robb:
I had planned on getting an EP 400 someday to supplement my Mackie 824s in the edit rack. My take on it was that subs built for "monitor use" are overpriced, I wanted something small, XLR in, and I wanted something that could go low enough to not only mix but also let me know if there's some low-end rumble with on-location recordings that I need to filter.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
MarkSJohnson #252603 03/19/09 03:25 PM
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I bet the fathom 212 is even better!


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
tomtuttle #252605 03/19/09 03:27 PM
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 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Yeah, but with a different avatar. That one freaks me out.


says the beer drinking squirrel....


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
terzaghi #252638 03/19/09 05:36 PM
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Elemental Designs is now offering a sealed 18" unit.

And the Rythmik / Ascend sealed 15" looks pretty good, too. I know that Rythmik offers an amp with an XLR input, but I'm not sure if it's in the fully-built Ascend models or not.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
tomtuttle #252644 03/19/09 06:00 PM
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Yep Jay, I'm about a 30min drive from ED in Newton, IA. Have not had the chance to check them out yet... thanks for the link.

My whole problem is placement. Like an idiot, when I first came to this forum I didn't ask any questions about running extra sub outlets around the room. My only option is to run tons of coax around the floor, look at the new wireless subs from HSU, hope Axiom comes out with a decent wireless transmitter/receiver, or maybe some other options.

I did find a company the other day that had "flat" wire that can be used as coax.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
SirQuack #252658 03/19/09 07:15 PM
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Does it explain how it is shielded?


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
tomtuttle #252666 03/19/09 07:54 PM
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 Quote:
Elemental Designs is now offering a sealed 18" unit.

The unit I have has a hole in one end.

Last edited by pmbuko; 03/19/09 07:54 PM.
Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
pmbuko #252667 03/19/09 07:56 PM
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snicker. snicker.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
MarkSJohnson #252670 03/19/09 08:04 PM
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And my wife wonders why I've started to giggle at my 12-year-old's jokes.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
tomtuttle #252673 03/19/09 08:13 PM
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CHICKEN BUTT!


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
pmbuko #252674 03/19/09 08:14 PM
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 Originally Posted By: pmbuko
 Quote:
Elemental Designs is now offering a sealed 18" unit.

The unit I have has a hole in one end.


No comment as to size?


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
jakewash #252704 03/19/09 11:30 PM
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 Originally Posted By: jakewash
I beleive the general consensus is sealed is better and the Fathom F113 is quite possibly the best one out there.

The concensus in the DIY community, if there is one, is that large ported is the best. The problem with sealed is that you need EQ and a LOT of power to get a sealed sub to extend really low. That usually introduces distortion.

For example, the MaelstormX 18" driver, because of its high linearity, is very well suited either to a 22-24cu.ft. ported enclosure tuned to 12 Hz, or a sealed enclosure.

Ported, it will have a -3db point of around 12Hz (lower in room), and will hit 113 db at 12Hz with 500w of power applied.

Sealed it will have a -3db point of 30Hz. at 20Hz it will be -8db and at 12 Hz -16db. In order to flatten the curve, you will need to apply EQ, which very quickly introduces distortion. Also, as the driver needs to move more to displace more air for lower frequencies, it needs more power to overcome the natural damping of the sealed enclosure.

The long and short of it being, you get more out of a good driver in a ported enclosure.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
fredk #252705 03/19/09 11:48 PM
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24 Cubic Feet?!?! Seriously?

That is very interesting, Fred. Do you believe it is *possible* to get decent output below 30Hz with a sealed box?


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
tomtuttle #252706 03/20/09 12:22 AM
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Yeah, it will do well in a very large box.

I can't say from first hand experience, but there are a few people that have used highly linear 18" drivers in sealed enclosures that get very good output into the teens. It just takes a lot of power and a very linear driver.

I would always go for a ported sub. If this economy ever recovers I will dedicate some OT$ to a 12ft. cu. ported sub.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
medic8r #252726 03/20/09 02:34 AM
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 Quote:
No comment as to size?

18" was a little unbelievable, so I leave it up to your imagination.



(I did that on purpose.)

Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
pmbuko #252733 03/20/09 03:35 AM
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Oh boy! Dream fodder!


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
pmbuko #252740 03/20/09 04:46 AM
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 Originally Posted By: pmbuko
18" was a little unbelievable, so I leave it up to your imagination.


Is it a bad sign if my imagination matched the 18"?

Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
MarkSJohnson #252745 03/20/09 07:18 AM
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 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Robb:
I had planned on getting an EP 400 someday to supplement my Mackie 824s in the edit rack. My take on it was that subs built for "monitor use" are overpriced, I wanted something small, XLR in, and I wanted something that could go low enough to not only mix but also let me know if there's some low-end rumble with on-location recordings that I need to filter.


Mark,

you are right on the money man, I am planning on getting an M22 setup with two EP400's, one for each channel. I believe that monitor equipment is WAY overpriced, and the response curves are not near as flat as the M22. Combine that with the EP400, which is quite frankly a very musical sub, and you get get a killer mixing and monitor setup (even with just one EP400, two is overkill, but whatever!)


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
fredk #252756 03/20/09 09:02 AM
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 Originally Posted By: fredk

The concensus in the DIY community, if there is one, is that large ported is the best. The problem with sealed is that you need EQ and a LOT of power to get a sealed sub to extend really low. That usually introduces distortion.

But he said he was looking for music not HT, so really low extension is not the need here, unless Robb gets into Pipe Organ music, which I highly doubt. Quick and fast response is of the order and a sealed sub is generally viewed as being better at this.


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
jakewash #252970 03/21/09 06:24 PM
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Jason,

I can safely say that I will NEVER get into Pipe organ music! ;\)


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Re: Anyone heard a SVS PBUltra or PCUltra VS Axiom
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Even if it's played by Keith Emerson?


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