Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners 3808 and PPPoE

Time to morph into a new thread, about being unable to connect the 3808 to the internet. I actually like the way the 3808 manual looks graphically, everything seems laid out in orderly fashion, until you read for content, in which all of the crucial technical details appear largely to be absent (tech support was similarly useless, they suggested I reset the microprocessor and return to default factory settings, which seems dubious as a solution after having run the unit for one day, hey whatever it takes but at this point I don't think so). Anyway lots of folks have stated the manual made them crazy, so far it's just made me laugh, there's nothing to scratch your head over and get upset about; the downside is that there's not much information to speak of at all, once it comes to depth. All you're left with is a zen finger pointing at the moon, but not necessarily of the intelligent sort. Well I digress, first impressions.

Tried entering all of the info from the router manually, including primary and secondary DNS, etc. to no avail; incidentally internet threads suggest that the router does not support UPnP so it doesn't seem like that's the issue, although from what I've read turning off UPnP is the holy grail of compatibility between 3808 and router.

I found this humorous entry in the manual: "The AVR-3808-CI is not compatible with PPPoE. A PPPoE-compatible router is required if you have a contract for a line of the type with which the PPPoE is set." Say what? My router does connect via PPPoE (DSL phone line), so I suppose I'm covered, because my router is PPPoE compatible?

Anyway whatever it takes, so far ATT and Denon have not been able to scratch the surface of my trouble connecting to the internet, hopefully I don't have to switch ISPs, the choices are ugly out here in the distant suburbs.

You have one unit hooked up to your DSL line, right? And that unit is what you're terming the router, and it has multiple ethernet ports on it?

If so, you're covered. If you have to log into something every time you get on the internet on your computer, then you're not.

Correct, but the 3808 enigmatically states "Network problem" whenever I attempt to connect, even though router settings show the 3808 as visible to the network as well as "connected."

Hmm. I simply don't know enough about the 3808 to tell you what's going on, but I assume there's somewhere to set the network settings? Could it be a DNS problem, perhaps?

I don't own a 3808, so I can't offer any specific advice. But I can ask some general network troubleshooting questions that might help...

Is this a combination DSL Modem/Router from AT&T or do you have a separate DSL modem and router? What are the brands and model numbers of the gear you have?

You've first got to make sure that the 3808 can 'see' your router.

Look at the status lights on your router. Specifically, the port that the 3808 is plugged into. Make sure the port's status lights are lit up. If not, then your 3808 isn't even physically connected to the router. Check the cables and connections.

If that port is lit up...

Are you using DHCP on your home network? If so, the 3808 should be set appropriately. I have no idea how that's set up on the 3808, but there ought to be some sort of 'automatic' network setting. There should be a way for you to access the DHCP client list on your router. Verify that you can see the 3808 on that list. If you can't see it, then it's not connecting to your router properly.

If you're not using DHCP, and using static IP addresses, then you need to be very sure that you're assigning the 3808 a free IP address and that the subnet, DNS, and gateway settings are correct on the 3808.

Once you can prove that the 3808 is 'talking' to the router, then the next step is internet connectivity. Does the 3808 use a specific port? If you know, make sure the router's firewall is setup to allow it. UPnP is a big help here. If your router doesn't support that, I'd get a new router. See if your router has a DMZ feature. By putting your 3808's IP address here, it will bypass any protective firewalls. See if that works. If it does, then you've got a firewall problem. If not, then you've got some sort of general connectivity issue, and that's going to be really tricky to help with.

Check your router's firmware and make sure that it's completely up-to-date. That matters. I once bought a new notebook that just wouldn't connect to my router. After hours of troubleshooting, I discovered that it was a known issue between the router and the NIC card in the notebook. A firmware update for the router was available, and it completely solved the problem.

And lastly, it's possible that for whatever reason your router & 3808 just aren't going to get along. In that case you're going to need a new router. Do you have another router you could try?

Gee, I really couldn't say. I've never been able to become knowledgeable regarding network issues; they've either worked (XP Pro, pretty good/somewhat; Vista seems to work) or not (XP Home), nothing I've ever tweaked/done has made much difference.

When the Denon is set to DHCP it fails to pick up an IP address, so I went into the Denon manual network setup and entered the IP Address, Subnet Mask, Default Gateway, Primary DNS, and Secondary DNS values I found in the router's "Broadband Link - Details" window. What I'm calling the router is actually a combined ethernet/wireless router/dsl modem that att calls a wireless gateway (perhaps that's the modern term?), namely the 2Wire 2701-HG, and I disconnected the network except for a direct ethernet connection between the 3808-->2701-HG-->dsl line, I'm able to test via notebook computer that the internet connection remains intact.

Although in the past I have wasted countless hours on network issues with zero progress I remain bound and determined to make this work this time because I want the feature upgrade especially the internet music connection.

Is the router's DHCP function enabled? Is that notebook set to acquire its IP/DNS/etc info automatically? If yes, and the Denon isn't able to get an IP address when it's set to it DHCP mode, then that's not a good sign. You may have some sort of compatibility issue.

I hate those combo DSL/router things. I am going to guess that's causing the problem. See if AT&T has any firmware updates for it.

You may have to go buy a 'real' router manufactured by a more mainstream company, like a D-Link or Linksys. Then you'd use the combo doodad as a Modem only, and use the new router to actually handle the routing/AP duties.

Yes it's an ATT combo 2Wire 2701HG-B dsl modem/router.


Ethernet light is green, currently the 3808 is the only ethernet connectiom, it's also lit at point of entry in back, when I disconnect ethernet cable both lights go out.


Yes I am using DHCP, and the 3808 shows up on the router list as "connected" with a unique IP address assigned from the range of options (exactly one higher than the previously assigned address).


I've tried this as a workaround but I'm not sure all of the settings are correct when I attempt this, e.g., if I use the assigned IP address are the subnet, DNS, and gateway settings identical to those on the router itself, or should I use the static address assigned to the router along with above (have tried both solutions without success)?


Not sure what this means, where is this port located, on the 3808 or router?


For the 3808 to function, UPnP has to be disabled (thanks Denon, leave it to everyone else to work things out) on the modem/router, according to Axiom threads, Google threads, as well as Denon tech telephone support. ATT and Google threads state that the 2wire modem does not support UPnP, which begs the weird question if support is not present, can I turn UPnP off? I'm suspecting I need a new router dedicated to the 3808, not sure what is available that will be compatible with this particular ATT service.


ATT suggested I disable the router firewall for the Denon, they call this "Allow all applications (DMZPlus mode)."
Implementation of this setting had no effect. If I'm not mistaken, what this mode does is assign the static IP address associated with the modem/router (i.e., the router labels the Denon device as the assigned DHCP address yet the IP Address is identical to the router's broadband connection IP address) to the Denon unit rather than one of the floating (?) addresses in the DHCP range of addresses.


Already checked, the firmware for the router is completely up to date, no upgrade available.


Again I suspect this to be true, because I have yet to tweak my way out of a network meltdown such as this. My concerns/questions are: 1) ATT relies heavily on 2Wire modems because generally they work well and are compatible with a wide range of computers, 2) are there other DSL modems that would work with ATT, and 3) are there DSL modems that are confirmed to work with Denon.

At this point I don't need a router, just a dedicated dsl modem that is confirmed to work with att/denon 3808.

Thanks much Peter for your detailed comments/suggestions.

It sounds like you've done quite a bit of troubleshooting! Not much else I can offer... Sorry.

I wonder why the Denon requires UPnP to be disabled? That's weird.

If you were to buy a new router, you could probably keep using the ZWire as just a DSL modem. There ought to be some way to just use it as a modem, and let the new router act as, well, a router. That might solve the problem. That's what I'd probably try.

I believe that there are two types of DSL networks; Frame Relay and ATM. The modems are different. Unless you're on a very old DSL network, you should be on an ATM. I really can't say for sure. I know that a lot of electronics stores (Best Buy, Staples) sell DSL modems. You could always try a new one, returning it if it didn't work.

Something else you could try - do you have access to another network? A friends house, perhaps? A bit of work to haul the 3808 somewhere else, but testing it on another network would give you more info. If it worked on another network with a different internet connection, then you'd know it was something with your Zwire. If it didn't work at the friend's house, then perhaps your 3808 itself has a problem.

Have you unplugged the router, then plugged it back in after a minute or two?

I'm struggling with some network issues too (not with the 3808) and I'm surprised about how many things get solved with a router "reboot"...