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Re: Subwoofer Settings/Audyssey
JonHan #253835 03/26/09 07:16 PM
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 Originally Posted By: JonHan
 Originally Posted By: Adrian


I'm confused...when speakers are set to 'large' do they not get everything and the xover is moot?


Certain receivers like Denon have a setting called LFE + Mains and when the mains are set to LARGE they will receive a full range signal. The subwoofer will still play the LFE channel, the low frequencies below the crossover from the speakers that are set to SMALL and the low frequencies from the FR and FL main channels based on the crossover setting.



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Re: Subwoofer Settings/Audyssey
SirQuack #253839 03/26/09 07:55 PM
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Well, that's at least one place I'm in agreement with Audyssey! All to Small, and 80 Hz.

Regards,

Alan


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Re: Subwoofer Settings/Audyssey
Adrian #253841 03/26/09 08:01 PM
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Adrian,

By all means experiment with different crossover frequencies, especially for the main left and right front speakers. Not everyone at Axiom agrees with me. Ian likes to use either 40 Hz or 60 Hz for his M80s, whereas I use 80 Hz. If I use a lower frequency, I get too much deep bass.

But you should definitely use 80 Hz for the QS8s and your center channel.

Alan


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Re: Subwoofer Settings/Audyssey
alan #253844 03/26/09 08:24 PM
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Thanks, Alan. It's a little odd that Chris at Audyssey would recommend an 80hz crossover on all speakers and running Audyssey tells me 40hz fronts/60hz centre/120hz surrounds. I am finding myself preferring the extra bass up front somewhat, but I'm giving 80hz all round a try for now...they both sound very good, just using the lower crossover seems to bring the bass more forward in my setup.


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Re: Subwoofer Settings/Audyssey
Adrian #253902 03/27/09 02:33 AM
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Chris does not recommend 80hz if Audyssey finds your crossover higher as measured "in your room". Do not turn them down.

Large vs Small is determined by your AVR. Denon and newer Onkyo uses 40 hz to make that decision. Older models use 80 hz. Set the mains to small and choose a higher number - 60 to 80 hz.

Re: Subwoofer Settings/Audyssey
dewd #253904 03/27/09 02:38 AM
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Audyssey had my mains "Large" with a 40hz crossover, and my centre on "Small" at 60hz which sounded fine to me, but many seem to recommend a "Small" setting all 'round with usually an 80hz(average).


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Re: Subwoofer Settings/Audyssey
Adrian #253906 03/27/09 02:52 AM
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Re: Subwoofer Settings/Audyssey
BlueJays1 #253907 03/27/09 03:27 AM
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Excellent link, there are some noteworthy points on there.

-they recommend setting the sub crossover at 10hz ABOVE the lowest freq. the towers can cleanly handle(M80s, we know, can reach quite low).

-they seem to lean more towards a lower(than 80hz) crossover to not localize the subwoofer location.

-it sounds to me(maybe I'm wrong) that Audyssey set my mains to 'Large' and at 40hz because they can go deep, cleanly.

I may try a crossover of 60hz tomorrow, at 80hz, I'm sometimes able to tell where the sound is located. As has been mentioned, some recievers only have the default setting of 80hz where others are more flexable, so I'll tinker with this some more.

Thanks for the link, Doc, it's very helpfull and informative.


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Re: Subwoofer Settings/Audyssey
BlueJays1 #253928 03/27/09 11:44 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Dr.House
 Originally Posted By: JonHan
 Originally Posted By: Adrian


I'm confused...when speakers are set to 'large' do they not get everything and the xover is moot?


Certain receivers like Denon have a setting called LFE + Mains and when the mains are set to LARGE they will receive a full range signal. The subwoofer will still play the LFE channel, the low frequencies below the crossover from the speakers that are set to SMALL and the low frequencies from the FR and FL main channels based on the crossover setting.


I have a Denon and know about the LFE+Main setting. I always thought that if you set a speaker to large it receives all frequencies and none are crossed over to the sub.


M80s,VP150,EP500,QS8(4)
Re: Subwoofer Settings/Audyssey
JonHan #253951 03/27/09 03:58 PM
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I believe that is correct, as a general matter. But regardless of what an AVR is calling it, if the crossover is 40hz, then that is where it is crossed over. So Small at 40 or Large at 40 should not matter at all.

And in general, this advice about crossing over lower than 80hz makes perfect sense and cures my problem with the "traditional" put it on small and 80 and forget about it. The sub should work in the very lowest end. The higher the frequency, the more localization you get, and the more your image degrades as a result. If you mains work cleanly to 50, then cross at 60 (most have 12db (??) roll off so still getting some 50 and 40 hz material) and set the sub to pick up at 70hz (again rolling in to run full steam at 60).

The traditional arrangement was, I think, based on the fear many users had cheap and/or small speakers that could not actually get down to 60, or even 80hz, cleanly. Distortion in bass is less noticeable so they let the sub have it, as even cheap subs can make an 80hz sound, but a driver making 600hz sound and distorting on 60hz material will sound bad. That was a bad deal for people with good gear, and I was am surprised how many people crossed over great towers at 80hz because that was the default Dolby setting.

Glad to see it is improving. Now I need a new AVR so I can run my towers at small/large and cross at 40 or 50. Right now I use large as 80hz is my only option, but imaging in much better with the towers running full range (down to their internal crossover point).


Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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