Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Grills off or on sounds better?

Sorry to ask what has probably been asked ad nauseum. But, I did search first and found nothing here.

It seems that some people say some speakers sound significantly better without the grills. I just took the grills off the M22s, while listening to the radio no less, and the improvement seemed dramatic. It surprised me.

I took off one grill cause the speaker fell (when I was touching up paint on the wall). The grill got a little fold in it that I was able to fix. In other words I had no intention of listening without the grill. But they do look cool without grills - so maybe that made me think they sounded better?.

Anyone else have this experience with M22s? Is there any objective research to support this idea?

I had always thought there must be a slight improvement without grills - but not enough to bother with. Now I think otherwise.

Now back to your regularly scheduled meaningful posts.....

It is my understanding that the only difference MIGHT be 1dB or less in volume difference with the grills on, no improvement in sound quality would be gained from having them off.

Hello donaldekelly,

I have always thought of speaker grills as serving a purpose as providing a layer of protection from prodding children and pets. If I didn't have pets and my living room would not get so dusty so easily I would have the grills off all the time.

If you think your speakers sound better with the covers off then by all means.

I suppose I should add that someone measured their (Scott?) speakers and found the graph was a little more wobbly in the higher ranges with grills on. Nothing that seems like it would make a big difference I guess - I am not real familiar with sound graphs.

http://www.signalengineering.com/scott/speakers/grill-on-off.jpg

What the guy wrote:
Lucky13 12-10-2003, 11:47 PM
"I clearly measured the effect of keeping the grills on my speakers (not Axioms). I suspect the proximity of the grill frame causes this rippled effect above ~3Khz. The red line is with the speaker grill off and the blue line is with it on."

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1177.html

Apparently he owned Axioms when he wrote this - maybe it is someone here?

Thanks for the response. I was curious as to what could be proven, though. No one has ever A/B'd them in a blind listening test?

If it is all in my mind - then I won't bother. If not, then I will bother. It can be difficult to get past the placebo effect sometime.

You are probably correct, Sir.

I spoke to someone at Axiom about this some time ago. All Axiom tests are made with the grill on. This does not imply that they sound better either way. But some loudspeakers from other manufactures clearly sound more natural without the grill, and the reverse is also true. Alot depends on the design of the frames inner and outer edges.

I've never noticed a difference, personally. I like the look of them more with the grills off, but I never really found a great place to store them where i didn't think they'd eventually get broken or just laying around the room. Turns out a good place to store them is on the speakers!

Aesthetically, I prefer mine with the grills removed. I like the look of the white cones against the dark vinyl.

Acoustically though, I think they sound better with the grills on.

I'd rather just leave the grills off, so my motivation would be to want to say there's no difference in sound. It's subtle, but I think there is an audible difference. I feel that the grills have some very slight affect on the highs - making them just a tiny bit smoother and more refined. And I do mean tiny - definitely on the edge between real and imagined.

I've switched back and forth a dozens of times over the years. Obviously, it's one of the easiest 'tweaks' possible. It always ends up that after a week or two with the grills removed, I'll stumble across some recording that I don't think sounds quite as good as it did before. Some high note will hit me in a displeasing manner. So then I put the grills back on and the SQ returns to 'normal'. So the grills they stay on for another 2-3 months. Then I'll get the itch again to remove the grills, and the process repeats. The will to replace the grills is always from a perceived SQ loss, while the will to remove the grills is always from an aesthetic desire. So I have to conclude that there is some auditory difference; at least in my room with my gear and with my ears.

Really though, it just matters as to what sounds best in your own space. As it's trivial to switch 'em, tinker at will.

Some speakers such as Paradigm, design their speakers and grills to be used together where others like Totem, design their speakers without grills. Overall, I'm sure most companies think of the grills more as protection from little fingers and dust particles than much else. I would suspect that "grills on" would have a minor impact on the highs, as noted.

I took the grills off of my VP150 the other night while watching a movie and I could swear that the dialogue was a little clearer. I almost never play the mains with the covers on.

ok thats it, tonight I'm going to blindfold myself, have my kid either leave them on or take them off, and see what I hear.

To make it scientific, they'll have to stifle their giggles!

Personally, I have not noticed a difference with most of my Axioms. The exception was the M2. When I was using them as computer speakers I could not stand the highs with the grills off. These were the only set I had that I could see being described as "ear bleedingly bright", although that is a bit of hyperbole. I found that the grills tamed the highs fairly nicely.

The only other speakers that I have owned where the grills made a difference was the Paradigm Monitor 11. With those is was more of an overall grill benefit, not just a high note taming.

I would like to remove the front grills from my M60's and VP150, however, and maybe this is picking too much of a nit, I find the white speaker cones somewhat distracting. In this case, I wish Axiom would change these to a black color which, in my opinion, would integrate better especially with the special dark cabinet finishes. As far as sound goes I hear little if any difference on or off. Paradigm, on the other hand over the years, with several models has integrated their grills with the speaker mounting methods to minimize diffraction.

I find it interesting that you would notice a large difference with the M2's, but not the others. Does Axiom use different grill fabric on the different models? That would be the only reason I can think of why there would be such a contrast to the sound of the speakers.

At 50 years of age and my hearing compromised approximately 350 live shows under my belt(and countless hours in a loud John Deere tractor cab) I am certainly unable to detect any difference. I like the looks of the speakers with the grills off, but with 3 kids- grills are on for the foreseeable future.

Shoulda bought a Case.

I used to notice a difference between grills-on and grills-off with homemade speakers and heavy black Radio Shack grill cloth, but don't notice a difference with my current Axioms.

Then again, my ears were also 30 years younger at the time

It all seems the same, so I have no idea why I would notice it only with the M2s. Could be that the other speakers are already within the range that the grills affect, or, more likely, that I'm simply out to lunch.

The guy I work for has a couple of John Deere 4710 800 gal 60ft boom sprayers and a couple of 4720 800 gal 90ft boom sprayers and those things are darn near as comfortable to drive as most new cars, GPS, A/C and bad-ass stereo systems ... much nicer and quieter than our spray planes.

I've never really listened for a difference with the grills on or off, can't remember the last time ours were off. The speakers do have a much more aggressive or meaner look to them grilless though, I believe.