MT. I have based my responses on a couple of things.

1. A conversation with Tom cumberland, the principle engineer at Axiom. He has been in the business a long time and knows many people in the industry including people at Yamaha. According to Tom, in the consumer division, they completely redesign their amps with each new series so you get variation in the quality/power from series to series.

In contrast, he told me that Denon takes an incremental approach to amp design. They keep a base design for a much longer time and make incremental changes over time.

2. I read a number of reviews done at audioholics on Yamaha receivers and it reflected Toms comments. Some receivers well exceeded their stated specs and others just met them.

3. Take a look at similarly priced Denon and Yamaha amps. The Yamis will have a lot more features. Everything has its price. If you add more components/features, you either need to add to the price, or cut back somewhere else. I think Yamaha cuts back on the amp section to deliver more features. For most people, its probably a good trade off.

Hi Mtbound10,

Oh, that's OK. I see all the emails and the audio experts' answers, including your email to Brent and his response. Given the text quoted in the Yamaha manual, I'd agree with Brent. It seems the 863 will be fine with the M80s provided you keep the impedance switch at its highest setting. It seems Yamaha has upgraded the robustness of the amplifier output stages in recent models, if the 863 is any indication and that's a good thing.

Some of my warnings about certain brands go back five years or more and may well be out of date. In recommending certain brands, I err on the side of caution. I know that Denons, Sherwood Newcastles, H/Ks, Outlaws, Rotels have no problems with 4-ohm loads, so that's what I recommend.

We did test quite a few brands when Axiom was deciding to take on an electronics brand that we'd sell on-line, and we wanted one that we knew would be stable driving the M80s, which is one of Axiom's most popular and biggest selling speakers. That's why we picked Sherwood Newcastle, among other reasons.

Regards,

Alan

Whatever happened to Axiom's own pre-pro? Do I dare ask?

Was is a pro-pre ated?

Alan,

Thanks again for all the support. I have not even bought anything from you guys yet and your customer service far exceeds what I see on a daily basis! I am sure we will be talking again soon when I place my order

Cheers,
Matt

<groan>

The 4 ohm posse strikes..........again.

Just to throw some more confusion into the mix...

I drove my M60's for the past 5 years with a Yamaha RX-V1400 and I think it sounded great. Lately I started looking at getting even better sound and I was looking at the M80's. Instead I purchased an Emotiva MPS-2(now discontinued) to try things out. To make the story short, the M60's were transformed. The lower bass is so much stronger and so much more detail as well, they just feel alive. I've been listening to music without a sub for the last two weeks and honestly I don't feel like it's needed(movies excluded).
The Yamaha by itself could play to insanely loud levels without breaking a sweat, but now I can listen at 75-80db and the speakers sing with enough bass to make my hardwood floors vibrate. Before I had to play at much higher db level for the same "sound".

I beleive the newer receivers like the 3808 will prove better than my 5 year old Yamaha though, and the difference between it and a separate amp might be negligable. I have not heard the newer ones though.

Mistico, just don't upgrade to the 80's now, as the MPS-2 may shut down. long story from former MPS-1 owner...

sirquak,
Thanks for the heads up! I read all about it and have voiced my concerns on the emotiva forum for this very reason. No reply there, but to be honest I'm so pleased with how M60's sound now that I probably won't upgrade for a while.