Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Arcam AVR600

Glenn:
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, no one is arguing that there will be huge differences in changes such as you made above. The argument is that the changes were due to the speakers being different, not the electronics (at least once you are using "reasonably good" electronics).

FWIW, I think you make an excellent point regarding the featureset of different electronics affecting the sound through audysey and the like...

Says he of the room that sucketh.

Mark, we'll ready the pool house for ya.

I've been practicing.

Hi Mark -

We are on the same page.

The thing I keep thinking about is what, from a scientifically measured point of view, constitutes "reasonably good" electronics.

If you buy this argument (and I am pretty close to doing so), then I think there should be a generally agreed upon set of minimum measurable requirements for power, frequency response, separation, noise, distortion, dynamic range, sensitivity, etc.

Would love to be able to flip through my snooty British HiFi mags, look at a box review, and say "it meets or exceeds".

Perhaps it is different for analog versus digital. I've read a lot about the efforts to reduce jitter in the latter categories, so there are clearly a lot of people who think it is a big deal. I do not know what audible jitter sounds like. I do not hear any pops or sizzles in my current setup. The sound coming from my speakers does not strike my ears as harsh or fatiguing. And yet I've got to believe that the jitter rates coming out of my HTPC sound card's hdmi port are very high.

I asked earlier, and would love to hear others opinions about what constitutes an audible level of jitter, and whether investing in a new sound card or an external DAC or the like would make any sonic difference.

Would also love to hear comments like "never buy a receiver when it generates more than .0005% distortion measured at -6db, because higher levels distortion were audible at this volume level to 72% of listeners in a blind sound test", etc.

In the meantime, I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Am having fun playing around with Dolby PLII settings. Have not found a single group of settings that sound universally good. Am particularly fiddling a lot with the front/rear balance on each recording, but have not found a cd that makes me want to punt back to stereo...yet.

Regards,

Glenn

Glenn, you partially missed the point: of course tone controls, ambience processing, and similar features which are specifically designed to change the sound will do so so when they're selected. There's no argument about that. The basic pre-amplification and amplification stages(with controls set flat)are supposed to amplify without adding audible sonic colorations, and well-designed units do so.

Hi John -

Honestly do understand your point, and agree with it.

The only thing I do not understand is what constitutes "well-designed" (your words) or "reasonably good" (Mark's words).

That's why I asked if there was any way to add some science to those descriptions. Would be great to know what to key in on when looking at A/V receiver spec sheets.

If my Denon 3808 was to die tomorrow, and I were to go shopping for a new A/V receiver, would certainly look at the feature list for all the right logos (Dolby TrueHD, DTS Master, etc.). But have no idea how to judge its technical specifications to make sure it meets your description of "well-designed".

And FYI, have decided to move my EP175 to my office and match it up with some new Audiobytes I am getting. Also going to order two EP400s for my main room.

Thanks a lot -- really do appreciate your advice, and that of other forum members!

Glenn

I would venture to say that ALL modern receivers and separates made by well known manufacturers would fall into the "well-designed" and "reasonably good" categories. In my opinion, the specs you mention would have more significance with lesser known companies that offer "budget" systems, or "theater in a box" products, in which case the specs are sometimes incorrectly or deceptively stated.

That's easy. The ones that I like are the "reasonably good" ones!

Actually, Spoiler's post above sounds right-on to me!

Hi Mark -

I hear you, Spoiler and JohnK loud and clear: there is a ridiculous amount of overkill in modern audio electronics.

The levels of distortion being compared matter only to an audio analyzer, and not to any sane person's ears.

With that, I'll let it rest. Thanks again for the advice.

Glenn

Yeah, Glenn; we buy speakers for sound quality. Sound quality with modern receivers is a given, and those should be bought from a features/price standpoint.