Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Shopping with Brother...
#26420 11/26/03 02:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
axiomite
OP Offline
axiomite
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
The story continues...

My brother was in town this past weekend and we went out and listened to some gear. (No I didn't bring my M60's with me, that will wait until he's finally ready to make a purchase.)

On our first stop we listened to some B&W CDM 7 towers and the smaller CDM bookshelf speakers. We also compared those with the NHT ST4.

In a nutshell, we liked the B&W's but weren't all that impressed. The NHT ST4's were quite terrible. Much fuller sounding than the B&W's (due to their built in sub), but clarity was lacking, and the mid-range was quite veiled.

One thing that was determined in this stop - my brother wants Rotel gear. He'll probably end up with the RSX-1055 receiver, and their RDV-1060 dvd player. (Based almost solely on looks more than sound. By brother is a big lable whore.)

2nd stop...

Here we listened to some Vienna Acoustics towers. Very nice. Much better than the B&W's, but room acoustics may contribute to that, as the first store's listening area was dreadful. Regardless, we both enjoyed the VA Bach's. Next we listened to a pair of Def Tech towers. I'd heard a few people mention Def Tech's, but I myself had never heard any. Wow! Very impressive! The two demo cd's we'd been using, really came alive on the Def Techs. I'm not exactly sure of the model number, but I think it was the Def Tech BP2400. I can see why Def Tech has fans now.

At this store we also listened to the Pioneer VSX-53 vs the Denon 3803. I think something was set up wrong, because the Denon sounded like poop. We'd heard the 3803 vs the Rotel in the previous store, and there was very little difference in sound. But like I said, I think the electronics end of things has been somewhat decided already.

Now we head home, and I throw the same cd into my system. Granted, audio memory isn't great, but he says to me, that he thought my system sounded as good as anything we'd heard. (I agree, with the possibility of the Def Tech's perhaps edging my M60's out. I'd have to hear them side-by-side) but the M60's certainly out shine either of the B&W speakers, and Vienna Acoustic speakers we listened to.

Yeah Axiom! Boy I love my Axioms.

fyi:

B&W CDM bookshelf speakers $1300
B&W CDM 7 $1800
NHT ST4 $1000
Vienna Acoustics Bach $1200
Def Tech $1600
Axiom M60ti $800

Re: Shopping with Brother...
#26421 11/26/03 06:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,041
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,041
In reply to:

At this store we also listened to the Pioneer VSX-53 vs the Denon 3803. I think something was set up wrong, because the Denon sounded like poop




Maybe it was poop. I had the 53TX and the flagship RSX1065 in my same room. CD player playing 2 channel direct on the 43TX sounded neutral and did not add to the sound compared to the RSX1065. 43TX sounded almost exactly as when I had the CD player hooked straight into the power amp. My CDplayer has volume control. The RSX 1065 seemed vieled maybe because it doesnt have bypass and is using the digital stage for volume. You should check out your 1066 is that is not the case.
Also for multichannel music and DVD playback. The Rotel could never match the speakers well tonally. The use is in millisecond delay is all but useless. Do you REALLY know how many millisecond it takes the sound of your center and main speakers to hit you. How many millesecond you should set your rears to the front channels.
The use of distance for delay makes sence. Sit down and get a measuring tape out and enter the distances for all your channels. The 53Tx will set up the delays automatically.
And most importantly is MCACC. I never believed in this before and doubted this as a gimmick even if Sushi said many times this is the real thing. Well even if you have an all Axioms lineup there is some tonal diffrences between the line-up. Not as much as having different speaker but there is some difference.
I tried manually setting the speakers between my planer speakers and the vp150 and my old PMC TB2 center. For the life of me I could not match anything. It was too difficult to match. Even when I had all PMC all around it was close but not equal. I tried matching the vp150 and QS4 and that also was not easy. I could not get a match. Qs4 had a higher tonal character than the VP150.
Thats when you pop in the special microphone and run the MCACC software. It shoots out multiple pink noise test tones at different tonal ranges and auto-calibrates all the speakers to match it in 5-6 different ranges of sound frequency. In the end what come out is having all the speakers to match or almost match tonally in most ranges of sound frequencies. I was blown away when the pink noise of the QS4 and the VP150 tonally matched in level and frequency with my planer speaker...WOT!!!!. It was pretty close. Your talking 2 totally different sounding speakers. I was floored. So the ELite series has EQ calibration in 5-6 ranges of tonal frequencies .... the RSX 1065 does not have that.
I think that is why the 53TX sounded way better than the Denon. It is properly configured.
As good as the Rotel is for power and being musical I think technology has just surpassed it and the Elite's and the Yammy lines were just smarter thinking.
Craig if you actually have volume control on your CD player or a preamp ... try connecting your CD player straight to your Rotel power amp. See if you get the same sound as when you have it connected to your pre/processor. If thats the case then the 1066 has analog by pass signal and using a analog attunuator rather than using its digital volume control stage. To me it was a big difference and it was time for me to sell the 1065 off. It was/is still a great receiver just a little bit of a big dinosaur.


Re: Shopping with Brother...
#26422 11/26/03 07:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 359
devotee
Offline
devotee
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 359
"because the Denon sounded like poop"

haha



haha

interesting post. i like comparisons you chose


Once You Pop You Can't Stop
Re: Shopping with Brother...
#26423 11/26/03 07:17 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
Craig, I'd suspect that the main point Sat is making is right on target. If the 53TX had MCACC applied, the difference in sound you heard compared with the 3803 was due to the room and speaker equalization. The unequalized sound with the two receivers, if the levels were exactly identical, almost certainly would have been identical. So, by extension, the sound your brother would get with the Rotel wouldn't be quite as good, not because of any inherent difference, but simply because it wasn't equalized.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: Shopping with Brother...
#26424 11/26/03 02:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,041
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,041
Johnk maybe the only person who understands me and can cut down my novel into 3 lines.
The problem with the Rotel piece (rsx1065) you can't equalize it. You can bring all sound levels to the same point but not tonal match because it has no equalizer.


Re: Shopping with Brother...
#26425 11/26/03 07:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
T
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
Very interesting post, Craig. Thanks for sharing.

One thing always comes to my mind about the Def Techs: those damn black socks that cover the entire cabinet. I hate that! And if you have kids or animals, the maintenance will eventually irritate you, I think. I know they sound great, but I like both the look and function of a wood box rather than a cloth sack.

Did I really just type "sack"? uh oh...


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Re: Shopping with Brother...
#26426 11/26/03 08:39 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,501
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,501
I think you guys are also assuming that MCACC was implemented correctly on the unit that spiff heard.

It could have been turned off or even implemented with a different set of speakers...who knows.

Re: Shopping with Brother...
#26427 11/26/03 10:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441
If you get rid of the black socks and replace them with jumbo Costco-size burlap potato/coffee bags, you could really make them blend in with a southwest decor...

Re: Shopping with Brother...
#26428 11/26/03 10:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
axiomite
OP Offline
axiomite
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
There was definately something amiss. I really don't think it was the MCACC. This was at Magnolia AV in Santa Monica. The room had over a dozen different speakers and equally as many receivers, dvd/cd players, all controlled by a touch screen podium. The Pioneer may have been calibrated, but it couldn't have been calibrated for all the speakers in the room. I suspect the tone controls had been messed with on the Denon, or something was simply hooked up wrong.

Re: Shopping with Brother...
#26429 11/27/03 12:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,041
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,041
sure......

in a good way of course




Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,940
Posts442,457
Members15,616
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,441
SirQuack 13,840
CV 12,077
MarkSJohnson 11,458
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 386 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4