Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Building a home theatre incrementally

While I have to admit that I've never actually heard an EP350, I still feel I could find better ways to spend $800 dollars than on one 350 watt sub. I'm not trying to crack on Axiom here, I'm sure the 350 sounds great. However when I was on a stricter budget I would have wanted more than 350 watts worth of bass for that amount of money.

For example I once had two down firing subs in my basement... a JVC 300 watt 13 inch thumper, and my Cerwin Vega 210 watt 12 incher. Combined I had about $500 dollars in these two subs, and let me tell you they shook my eyeballs right out of my head when you put them together. Unfortunately the JVC developed a problem, and I ended up trading it to another friend of mine after getting it fixed for some motorcycle stuff or something. While it was gone I decided the 210 watt Cerwin Vega did a good enough job all by itself keeping up with the rest of the audio gear I had.

It couldn't ever hope to keep up with what I have now, all by itself. But I still think I could find a lot more bass for $800 dollars than what the EP350 could give me. I might give it a shot, but it sounds to me as if Jay might be a little more frugal than that. And I think he could probably find a lot of bass for around $500 bucks elsewhere. But that's just me.

Has anyone used (or heard of?) a 10 watt sub before? According to the math, a 10 watt sub could generate a 50hz drum beat at 90 db (at 12 feet I think, according to JohnK's calc). I just can't imagine that. After only two decades of daily use of stereo equipment (including many subs and amps) and AVRs, I think the math formula has a gaping hole. It may be right for a test tone, but for a real drum beat, or bass guitar, or LFE - or a constant series of those notes? Axiom thinks you need 500 watts for one 12" driver to recreate bass notes. Why?

And if more than 10 watts is needed for subs, then why not for a tower that is trying to make the full range of music when I have the sub turned off? Something is missing in this discussion. I'm not saying the formula is wrong, but perhaps not all encompassing. It just does not reflect reality as observed by so many.

My understanding is that lower frequencies require much more power than mids and highs. What I'm not sure of is whether or not it's simply the physical act of moving a larger cone to a greater excursion or if there's some other reason.

Not arguing your point; I want a big amp.

Right, so if you desire lower freq done right you need more power. So the math does not account for the full audible range - at least that is my concern.

I'm sorry, Charles. I missed your point about a tower needing more power when the sub is turned off. My fault; I skimmed.

You're right. It's a good question and I have no useful info on the answer!

I think more to the point is the initial movement/surge of power needed to get the quickness needed. I know my system sounded very different running the A1400 compared to the 3808 alone. Bass had much more impact, even at lower volumes. The 3808 alone sounds very good, with the A1400 it sounded incredible. Someday I hope to play around with a Pro amp to see if they work as well as the Axiom amp.

Micah, I don't mean to minimize the importance of the power output of the amplifier, but you can't accurately judge the performance of a subwoofer by the wattage of the amplifier. What's important is that the driver and amplifier are well matched. A more efficient driver will require less power to reach it's potential than an inefficient driver. So, if you'll forgive the oversimplification, it's not out of the realm of possibility that a subwoofer with a 350 watt amp could play louder than a subwoofer with a 1000 watt amp. Also, the power of the amplifier does not indicate the quality of the sound the sub will produce.

Not implying that because of the 350 watt amp, I was implyng that because when I first started to inquire about subwoofer choices to go with the M80's I was looking at getting, the vast majority told me to get AT LEAST an EP500, if not go with either two EP500's or one EP800 to keep up with the tremendous amount of volume the M80's output!

So that got me figuring ether two EP125's or even an EP350 probably wouldn't be up to the task. And not everybody has $2000 + to put into just the bass end of their system. Like I said I've always thought Axioms subs were a little too pricey for the more modest buyers.

Not that they don't perform great, but the subwoofer market is chock full of very good deals. So unless you're anal about having the same brand throughout your entire system like I am, then I would totally understand going with SVS or similar competitors who offer more bang for the buck. Subwoofers are the one component that I feel don't have to be the MOST accurate speakers in the world, but can still be very effective. For instance Jay could get himself quite a bit of earth rattling bass with 4 or 5 hundred dollars now to hold him over. And when he's more flush with cash later on spring for an EP500, 600 or 800.

That's what I personally would have done if I were in his shoe's.