Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler More Non-aidio advice question -- bikes.

Warning: Long Post! Only read if you are into biking or you risk getting bored.

I've found myself getting back into biking this summer. I used to be an avid mountain biker (OK rough, hilly, trail biker as we have no real mountains) but after destroying a knee in martial arts quiet a few years back I got out of trail biking and lost the urge to road bike except a few times a summer. Now I seem to be enjoying going out almost every evening that I don't go sea kayaking or have other plans.

With quiet a different goal for pedaling now, I'm finding the mountain bike way too slow and it's actually hard work to keep up to my wife on her hybrid. I want to trade up to a sports oriented hybrid. I'd prefer taller, slightly thinner tires than MTB style and a little faster gearing as speed is now more useful than heavy trail ability. <<Insert getting old jokes here.>> However, I'm not ready for a road bike yet as I need to be comfortable on some very rough roads and the smoothed trail to our beach.

So, after finding nothing in local used listings, ruling out the heavy, “rust in a year” steel crap from Wallmarts and such, I hit the two decent local bike shops. Now after sadly dismissing a "Rocky Mountain, Whistler" as being the absolutely, nicest bike I rode but way too expensive and too close to a MTB for me, and then deciding $100 is not enough off a really nice but ‘very’ used (although I’m sure well maintained) "Specialized" bike from thier rental fleet, I’m down to two New bikes at athe 2nd shop.

A Giant, Cypress, $459
And the
Opus, Mondano $549

Note: I didn’t ride either yet as I was dressed in work clothes last night. So the biggest test has not yet been done.

Basic Differences/Similarities
> Both are hybrids leaning to the sports (closer to road than MTB) side, both have 700x38 size tires.

> Both have front suspension (not a big whoop for me but considering my area’s paved, back roads are worse than most dirt roads, I’ll probably learn to appreciate it.) Slightly more travel on the Giant's suspension but I must remember, these are NOT mountain bikes.

> Opus has suspension seat & web says Giant had one too but I don’t remember seeing it on the shop model.

> Both have very similar aluminum frames.


For the extra ninety bucks… (which is where you guys come in)

-- The Opus is a 24 speed vs. 21 (I can remember many a time when I would have killed for one extra cog in the rear on long hills with my current 21 SPD MTB.)

-- Also in regards to the above, the Giant’s cassette is 14-34T and the Opus is 11-30. They share the same crank size at 28-38-48. (For my intended use, I think a little more speed combined with a larger gear spread (8 vs. 7) outweighs the lower, low range. If that makes sense.

-- ‘Slightly’ better components for shifters, derailleur, etc. (just one step better than base level and I’m unsure how much that actually means. I guess I will know better when I ride them and see how smooth the shifting is.)

-- Minor and easily fixed but I hate the big, fat, spring seat on the Giant. While I didn’t sit on either long enough to say which was more comfortable. My subconscious tells me that the only thing the springs do is make the saddle look ugly and fat.

In the end, the test drive will (should be) the most important factor but I thought I’d ask you what you guys think based on the numbers as it has been 10 years or more since I bought my last bike so my tech knowledge is lacking.

Any thoughts, general or specific are welcome. I tend to be a compulsive buyer, made more complex in that I don’t actually insta-buy but I compulsively decide I need something right away then I over analyze it to death until I can’t decide or I convince myself I need something better than practicality actually dictates.

Actually, I'm doing pretty well to have resisted the urge to buy from the higher end bike shop. I think the above are still well respected names that better fit my budget and the shop is still very well reputed and helpful.

Thanks!!

Stop plagiarizing The Axiom Forum Pledge.

Sounds to me like you have it pretty much under control.

I'd just flip a coin.

Does that help?

Glad to see you're getting back into biking, Murph. I got back into biking, mainly just for fun and exercise, but perhaps the greatest benefit I have gained from biking is a healthier heart. Before I got back into biking, my BP was about 150ish over 85-90ish....in only a couple of months(along with 100mg of CoQ10 daily) I am at 122-125 over 72-75. OK, 'nough with the health benefits.....

If you are mainly going to use your bike on roads and relatively decent paths, personally I would go to something with a 700x32 tire or thereabouts. My Coda Elite actually has 700x28's but I take it on some fairly rough trails around here(3 yrs, no flats, guestimating over 1000mi). The wider tires might be a bit of a drag on pavement and cycle paths.

This leads to another point...if you are riding on decent trails, roads ect, I would consider not getting the fork suspension and seat shock. This will just add weight to your bike, and only benefits you on the worst trails, plus, in the price range you spec'd, they'll cheap-out somewhere else on the bike.

Aluminum vs Steel....aluminum is used obviously for it's lightness vs strength, however there are some benefits to buying a properly built steel bike. Excluding the dep't store bikes from Walmart, Zellers ect a bike frame made of lightweight steel actually has better riding qualities than a comparable aluminum bike. This is what led myself to a Jamis Coda, there are several different Codas available, they are all sport or performance oriented. Steel welds are also stronger than aluminum which is less flexible or forgiving when hitting the pot-hole down the road. Remember, I'm referring to lightweight alloy steel, not your thickwall mild steel from Canadian Tire.

Virtually all frames come from China or Taiwan these days, even Rocky Mtn, I understand has some of their frames subbed out offshore.

Get a quick-fire type gear change(not a hand grip type), they are better, faster and more accurate. Make sure you get the bike fitted at the store, right length stem, size of seat, frame ect. Think of it like buying a shirt, it's got to fit right.

Giant(largest bike co in the world) and Opus are both excellent co's. I checked out both and tested a Giant Cypress(?) a couple of years ago which was good bang for the $$. I have seen many Opus bikes but not test driven any of them...they have some very nice Mtn bikes too.

Take your time and give'm a good test ride....clear the track!! here comes Murph!!!

OK, something I can actually help w/.

I'm an avid rider, mostly road, a bit of cyclocross and the other MTB. Cyclocross might be a bit odd to hear but you can google it. Pretty much it's a road bike w/ knobby tires, similar to what you'd find on a hybrid. They're great commute bikes and handle wet weather well (including snow) because of tire clearance. The only negative in your case is there's no suspension.

I wouldn't nitpick on features in this price range. Pretty much US$800 and below many of the bikes in similar prices are very close so then it's a vanity decision.

What you should do is really understand what you will use the bike for so you can determine features. A couple of cogs won't matter if you ride mostly flat. If you will never take it off-road, then you may be able to use a cyclocross type of bike. If you want to ride for long distances, spring seats aren't comfortable or practical. You can also look at what is called 29er bikes. These are real MTB's that use 700c wheels. The theory is that the bigger wheels roll over terrain easier. It's true but in tight singletrack the bigger wheels are harder to turn. I like 'em but I don't own one...yet.

Trek is also having WOW sale in honor of the Tour de France. Worth checking out.

If you're comfortable working on your own bikes, you can do well used. I use ebay and Craigslist. Also, if you want to support the local economy, Spot and Brodie are Canadian builders, IIRC.

Other forums to check (which I recommend and use):
mtbr.com
roadbikereview.com

I wrote this a bit fast so I apologize if I rambled. Feel free to PM me if you have specifics, or post here if others might be interested.

BTW, no matter what you decide, THE most important thing is that the bike fits. If it doesn't, you won't ride it, no matter how much it costs or how nice it looks.

Wow, tons of great info. Good technical stuff from Adrian and OldSkool to ponder and much common sense from Tom for when I finally get back to the store. I'm happy to hear it did such great things for your Health Adrian. I don't have any risk categories yet but I do need to work off my winter beer store as it was a lousy winter for skiiing.

To answer some questions or speculations from your posts:
I'm pretty handy on bikes and would happily buy used but nothing within a decent distance has been listed for some time now. I'm not interested in having a used bike shipped to me unseen. I have looked into other brands but in the absence of anything used catching my eye, I would like to buy from a decent, local shop so my choices are limited to
Rocky Mountain
Specialized
Opus and
Giant
These are about the only shop sold, hybrid brands available outside of a 4hr drive. A mall-type sporting goods store carries Trek and some others but nobody there has enough knowledge to answer my most basic of questions so I just simply won't buy from them.

Thanks again,
Hopefully, the rain will hold off Saturday and I can take a couple more for a spin.

Sounds like you have a good start. If you think you'll rely on your local shop for a lot of service, then stick w/ a local shop. I am a big fan of buying locally and supporting the local vendors (yeah, even tho' most of the stuff is made in China).

If you're working w/ a shop, make sure they allow for a free 1 month follow up. After a month, a new bike will 'burn in' (HA!) and it'll need some minor adjustments. In this recession, I'm sure you might be able to negotiate some length of free service for a year if it's not already included. Don't buy online unless you know EXACTLY the frame dimensions you need, which is almost impossible unless you buy the same bike you demo'ed.

Don't stick w/ one brand just yet, try all of them and make sure the shop goes to the effort of fitting you properly. Adrian makes some good points about suspension parts adding weight. Ask yourself if you'll really need the extra 'doo dads' since you'll be adding the extra weight to do so.

May also want to consider brands that have lifetime (frame) warranty. I think Giant does but not sure. I know that Trek is lifetime.

On my cyclocross (CX) and commuter bikes, I run any where from 700x28 to 700x34. The 34's can provide a surprising bit of 'suspension' on trails and rough roads, while still providing better rolling resistance vs an MTB tire.

I'm also w/ Adrian on steel. Almost all my bikes except two (I have 7 BTW...), are steel. Yeah, steel will rust but only if leave it outside in the rain for years on end. If taken care of, it'll be fine. I wash my bikes after each ride by spraying w/ Simple Green and hosing it off lightly. Never had a rust problem. Steel is more compliant than aluminum so the ride isn't as harsh. Steel can also be repaired/welded, aluminum cannot. The negative is that it's heavier in general, which you will see w/ dept store bikes. Well made frames can be very light, my steel road bike (build by a builder named Brent Steelman, no kidding) weighs in at about 17 lbs built up.

Re:
I am a big fan of buying locally and supporting the local vendors (yeah, even tho' most of the stuff is made in China).
Me too, with the exception of computer & aftermarket Jeep parts. Just can't get them locally


If you're working w/ a shop, make sure they allow for a free 1 month follow up. Don't buy online unless you know EXACTLY the frame dimensions you need, which is almost impossible unless you buy the same bike you demo'ed.
Good Advice, They are among several reasons why I'm sacrificing some variety in choice for using a local shop. Unless, of course, I'm just not satisfied with what I find here.


Don't stick w/ one brand just yet, try all of them and make sure the shop goes to the effort of fitting you properly.
See above, but you are right. Unfortunately exploring any other brands in person means a day trip of 6 hours of driving for just 1 more choice and 8 hours return for a much greater selection. What's worse is that this will probably surprise you as being a min. $120 to 140 dollar trip so I'm hoping to be very satisfied with a locally found brand or my budget gets ruined. (Why so much to travel expense, you ask? The bridge to get off this Island is $40 bucks alone plus gas and snacks.)

Adrian makes some good points about suspension parts adding weight. Ask yourself if you'll really need the extra 'doo dads' since you'll be adding the extra weight to do so.
Again, agreed. I initially went looking for a rigid fork but again am limited in my choices due to location.

May also want to consider brands that have lifetime (frame) warranty. I think Giant does but not sure. I know that Trek is lifetime.
Good advice, I'll add that to my checklist to balance. Both shops I'm dealing with are extremely well respected for follow up service. Because there is only two, they are very competitive with each other and this works to my advantage.


I'm also w/ Adrian on steel.
Hmmm, I may have been hasty here. You both make good points on it's benefits and relative weight. However, I'm pretty sure every bike I looked at in this class & pricerange was either aluminum or maybe chromolly. I'd have to double check on a couple. I may not have a choice for steel unless I go to discount store levels or much higher pricing.


Certainly keep the good advice and excellent learnings coming but bear in mind that I am down to a shortlist for a few reasons, mostly because of geography.

I know very little about bikes (my 'bike' is a 2005 Suzuki Boulevard M50 ). But I did tag along when my wife bought her first 'good' road bike a couple of years ago and learned a few things.

Buy local, because these things do need to go in for a 'tune up' every so often, and it's easier when you can go back to the local shop for service. And if it's a decent shop, they'll take the time to really measure your body and figure out the correct size bike you should be riding. The size of a (good) bike is as specific as the clothes that you're wearing. You've got to know what size bike you need.

If you're getting into "really" nice bike territory ($1,000+), look at last year's models. It's like a car. You can save a lot of money by buying "new-old-stock". My wife fell in love with this particular Cannondale road bike, but it was about $2,500. Much more than we were looking to spend. A different shop had the same bike at a similar price, but he also had a 'previous year's model' of the same bike. The bikes looked identical to me, other than a different color scheme. Little things were different, "oh, the V2008 has the flibidygibit 3.0 deraileur system while the V2007 has the 2.0, and the V2008 weighs 3 ounces less". Alrighty then.

My wife couldn't tell a difference between it and the 'new' model when she test-rode them. So we bought it, plus a water cage + computer for about $1,000 OTD. Saved well over $1,000 from what the 'old' bike had been priced when it was the 'new' one. It's been a really fantastic bike, and it seems extremely well made.

And if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, Cannondale bikes are made in the US. In Bethel, PA.

Peter makes a great point. I was going to mention that as well.

If you can find the previous year's model, you can make a better deal since the shop wants to move out the old inventory.

Another company that seems to give good bang for the buck, aside from Giant, are Norco Bikes . Yhey have a wide selection of models to choose from. I also really liked the performance hybrids from Devinci , some nice choices there also. Depending on when you want to pull the trigger on some wheels, bike dealers(like car dealers) are more willing to negotiate pricing as the summer moves forward. Fall time is bargain time where bikes are concerned, but....your riding will obviously be shortened going into winter and you may not get the exact bike you are looking for.

One thing I meant to mention before as well re shocks/springs in the seat post is that you really want to maintain the same distance/relationship between the pedals and your seat position. If your seat is moving up or down while you are pedalling, then so is that relationship between the seat and pedals. I don't doubt that it might give the casual rider a little more comfort, but if someone needs any kind of suspension, it'd be best left to fork shocks and/or a shocked/sprung rear swing arm(really only for Mtn bikes).

Here is a list of bike manufacturers just in case we haven't confused you enough already