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Re: Just set up my new epic80-500 system in 7.1
grunt #270249 08/23/09 01:58 PM
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 Quote:
However, I’m not sure we share the same idea of what is enough bass.

Exactly! If you are having problems, it is well worth the cost of an inexpensive spl meter to know in a quantifiable way what your sub output is, both compared to others and to the rest of your system.

I think sub design concern is a red herring.

Edit:
 Quote:
I am very please with the sound I just would like a little more of it, and it is a huge space to fill.

well, that makes sense. You sound like the guys on the DIY forums that keep adding more subs for more presence. It is quite amazing how much woofage some people end up with and it does seem to make a difference to have more subs to produce similar output.

Last edited by fredk; 08/23/09 02:06 PM.

Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
Re: Just set up my new epic80-500 system in 7.1
fredk #270250 08/23/09 02:06 PM
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Thank you for that articulate post Mark. I enjoyed reading that.


I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne
Re: Just set up my new epic80-500 system in 7.1
BlueJays1 #270258 08/23/09 02:53 PM
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Hey Osborne:

It was just a thought, I've seen people hook them up to the wrong outputs. I hope you get it worked out. Maybe a bigger sub is in order.

Good luck.

Re: Just set up my new epic80-500 system in 7.1
Joebob #270277 08/23/09 06:41 PM
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I have my EP800 set to full volume & the Denon is at +6 (can go to +12). It is loud, but as stated earlier, not nearly as loud as my old JBL was. Turning the Denon up any further results in those 'popping' sounds I described (the second new driver should be here any day) & still not as much volume as the cheaper sub.

Once the second driver is installed I'm not expecting any more popping noises, but I don't expect it to get any louder either. Keep in mind I'm very pleased with its performance. If I wasn't I certainly would have returned it for the $2300 dollar price tag it came with. Its just that I've heard much louder, & I am sure there are probably many people out there that would expect a sub costing better than two grand to put a $400 dollar sub to shame.

It does so with sound quality, but it would lose a sound pressure competition.


My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD
Re: Just set up my new epic80-500 system in 7.1
Micah #270278 08/23/09 07:16 PM
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That still doesn't sound right to me.....


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Just set up my new epic80-500 system in 7.1
MarkSJohnson #270281 08/23/09 08:09 PM
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 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
That still doesn't sound right to me.....


It doesn't sound right to me either. My SVS PC-Ultra is driving 7,000 cubic feet. I'm using 15Hz tuning and have applied the one level equalization to tame a nasty room hump centered around 65Hz. Both those produce limiting to the max output. I can't be sure but feel the sub is not being taxed that hard to provide all the bass I want. Maybe our SPL expectations are different. I'd love to hear a high end Axiom sub in the DFW area if anyone here would offer. Hint. Hint.
Bill


Whose avatar should I borrow next?
Re: Just set up my new epic80-500 system in 7.1
MarkSJohnson #270282 08/23/09 08:19 PM
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I dunno if the others will like it but I'll throw my two cents in.

First thing I'd do is update my denon AVR via the net. Logic there is some issues with LFE processing were documented in the firmware updates given out to shops a while back. I can't remember what model though. Second make sure you have it plugged into the back of the denon's line level out section in the RCA named SW.

Then I'd go into the Denon setup screens and make sure your x-overs are set right. Make sure it's set to LFE+Main for both surround and pure direct/stereo modes (pure direct has it's own descrete x-over settings remember and LFE+mains to 80Hz squazi highpass) and that the fronts and center are set to large. Set the rears to small. Set mains x-over to 60Hz, center and rears to 90Hz. You can try 40Hz for mains as well. Sucks Denon doesn't have high/low settings and the Hz steps between 40 and 80Hz are in 20Hz increments as I figure about 46 to 56 would be ideal. I'd love to set it to 53Hz... Set levels for each chan to something like this to start. Mains +2.5, Center +2, rears +1 with LFE at +5. Set the sub to 80% on the dial and set sub x-over to 100Hz or infinity (personally I think it sound better going through the x-over even if there is nothing there to cross. Set DSP to half and on the denon make sure roomEQ is turned off and tone defeat.

This should result in decent spl levels. One thing though, LFE coax can make a difference. Out of all frequencies one could send down consumer line level, LFE seems to be the most affected by a poor peace of coax. With the kinda money you spent on that sub I suggest you get an LFE cable from Bluejeanscable.com You might be shocked that it will allow your sub to play louder and fuller. Specially if you have a peace of shit coax segment like that crap Monster directional LFE cables with a broken ground.

If you really wanna go nuts and have a HTPC/notebook you can get yourself some kinda external USB soundcard with phantom power, a Galaxy SPL meter, some cables and download a copy of roomEQ or trueRTA. For about 200 or so bucks and some forum research over at hometheatershack.com you will be able to make that sub hum bigtime. It's a fantastic unit. Top notch. In fact the best product axioms has less the M22.

Really the easiest luddite method to figure location is to generate LFE tone and move around the room to where it's loudest then move the sub to that location. Do this over again a few times and you should get a general idea of best placement. If it's more boomy at that location try changing the phase switch. I dunno if it can really hurt the sub but personally before I change phase I turn the volume on the sub to zero flip switch and then turn it back up. I really hope this helps you out Osburne. The EP500 here has been able to move plates on the wall, make that oak floor move up and down maybe an inch in places and actually might be responsible for a crack in the drywall. When I was testing I had a pal place his had on those windows man and he was like WOW check out the flex. I walked over and felt it and almost freak out! I was yelling, "turn it down! turn it down! I thought the windows was going to break! Seriously no one word of a lie! It actually scared the heck outta me

Solid-State

PS hmm... due to RCA breakage replacement I might have different rev amp than original testing... It does seem not as loud perhaps. I wonder if Mika is onto something... I'll run those same tests again.

Last edited by SolidState; 08/23/09 09:02 PM.
Re: Just set up my new epic80-500 system in 7.1
wilwom #270283 08/23/09 08:20 PM
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 Originally Posted By: wilwom
Maybe our SPL expectations are different.



You're right, maybe our SPL expectations are different. But that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about my EP800 not being able to play as loud as my JBL PB12 did. And my analogy stems from people who are used to high SPL subs buying an Axiom sub that can't match those SPL levels and feeling something must be lacking. Only I'm starting to get the impression the older Axiom subs can reach those insane SPL levels, which makes me wonder why my EP800, as well as a lot of other members on this board with newer Axiom subs, can't reach the same SPL levels as the older one's could?

Are there any graphs I wonder that show the max SPL of say an older version EP500 or EP600 compared to one of the EP500's or EP800's that have the new amp installed in it? That would be interesting to find out imo, if they are the same or not.

Last edited by Micah; 08/23/09 08:21 PM.

My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD
Re: Just set up my new epic80-500 system in 7.1
Micah #270289 08/23/09 08:40 PM
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Axiom published this data! LOL the thing is INSANE DUDE! I seriously believe that it could possibly blow out a picture window! Do you guys have PCs you can use in the theater? Download some software man like roomEQ and run some test tones and sweeps. And if you have shit LFE coax... and pal by now you know I'm for real and not a smoothsaying slickster, get some LFE from bluejeans or buy a spool of 1694a and terminate it yourself but old shortwave radio buddy's "analog" LC-1 coax does do better than 1694a and is easier to work with.

Solid-State

Re: Just set up my new epic80-500 system in 7.1
SolidState #270291 08/23/09 09:10 PM
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Micah,

If your not happy I'd swap that EP800 for two EP500s this would have been the better choice from the get go as you must have a large space. Or you could place your EP800 on it's side so both subs are closer to the floor. Really though it sounds like your space would be best suited with two EP500s than that insane EP800.

Solid-State

Last edited by SolidState; 08/23/09 09:14 PM.
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