Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Vt100 crossover settings and Audyssey

hi guys--

I am a very proud owner of two awesome M60v2 and a VT100 center channel. I am using a Denon 2808CI receiver, which allows for Audyssey MultEQ processing. I have been going back and forth with the Audyssey-- I have talked to a lot of people on other boards, posted to the Audyssey blogs, did my 8 measurements, etc, etc, and I think the Audyssey encoding is building a better soundstage, though I am noticing that the sound is a lot less bass-y, especially from the center channel.

I have an SVS 10" Sub and have my mains set to "small" with a crossover at 80Hz. This configuration seems to be pretty solid, it's allowed for the M60s to really "fill out" the mids and the highs. The Audyssey measurements set my crossover 60Hz for the VT100, but I am trying to figure out if I should set it to 80Hz.

I looked up the graph for the M60 and it seems like 80Hz is a good setting for it, but the VT100 has no such graph, and I have two entries for frequency response from the site:
Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz):
95 - 22 kHz
Freq Resp +3dB- 9dB (Hz):
65 - 22 kHz

I don't really understand what there is a -3 and -9; I would assume it has something to do with recognizing that not everyone is listening at reference level.

But I see that the top number is 95-22kHz, so I wonder if I should have my crossover set to 90 or 100, or just keep it at 80, or keep it at 60. Frankly, I am just confused, I dunno what sounds better--I was just so used to hearing more bass that I don't know if I am just used to it thicker sound and that the sound "should" be less thick..

just not sure.

How about you guys? Do you use the Audyssey processing? Even if you don't, would you have a recommendation in terms of setting my crossover? My sub's frequency response is 20-100 Hz.


thanks for any advice you might have!
-mike

It doesn’t hurt to experiment around that’s really the best way to get the most out of your system if you have the time and inclination. If Audyssey is leaving your center sounding thin I don’t think changing your crossover is going to help much.

I’ve had the same experience since purchasing my Denon 2807 about 3 years ago. The soundstage generally sounds better but it leaves my speakers especially the center sounding thin the center is even tinny. My experience is not limited to one center speaker it’s the same using my VP150, M22 or M80 center. Sadly I finally gave up on Audyssey as I didn’t feel the improved soundstage was worth the change in tone.

Here are a few things that might help if you haven’t already tried them. If your VP100 is near your screen or a wall try moving it out into the room a little and see if that helps. Make sure to aim the speaker so that the drivers are pointed at ear level for your seating.

Sorry if I’m not much help but I’m one of those few people who just doesn’t think Audyssey’s improved soundstage is worth the loss of sound quality I hear.

Cheers,
Dean

Mike, there's no problem in setting a speaker crossover higher(but not lower)than results from the Audyssey measurements. If the Audyssey setting for the VP100 was 60Hz, that means that it will provide equalization down that far and obviously includes higher frequencies. So, setting the VP100 at 80Hz(which I'd suggest)or higher won't disable any of the room equalization which is being applied to it.

I think most here would say that their VP100 (and likely the 150 owners as well) have their center channel set at 80Hz..... with a few that have the flexibility maybe even setting it for 90Hz or 100Hz.

I think that having them crossed over at something below 80Hz would be in the very small minority.

Taking a wild guess here... If Audyssey found your crossover to be 60Hz for your VP100, I'm guessing you have the speaker in a cabinet? Maybe even below the TV?

Since Audyssey looks for the -3dB point for each speaker in "your" room, that setting is just fine.

hi guys!

thanks so much for the responses. @Dewd--you totally called it! Here's an old shot of my setup (I need to take new shots):
http://www.mikeromo.com/data/quickshot.jpg

and yes, my center is in a cabinet, below the TV. When we move I am hoping to get a new cabinet, though the wife is very happy with how things look right now.

@dean, It is kind of a relief to find that I am not alone in my experience. I was shocked at how tinny things sounded, but then when I measured an 8-point "bubble" around my listening area (using a pattern I found on AVS forum - http://tinyurl.com/b6cfl3 ) it started to sound a lot better.

@sirquack - you mean that the 60Hz is just fine?

thanks again,
mike

Mike, I would adjust the crossover up to 60 for the center.

Even if it's getting some reinforcement from the cabinet position, the VP100 is not capable of good output at 60Hz and whatever is being measured is not at all likely flat.

Besides, 80Hz is where Dolby or THX or somebody really, really important recommends crossing over.

I cross mine at 100Hz, for what it's worth. My M80s are at 40 (when I had the M50s out here it was 60Hz), and my QS4s are at 120Hz.

Yes, Randy is saying is that if Audyssey is setting your crossover at 60Hz then that’s the performance it’s hearing and believes is the correct setting for your speaker. However, Audyssey like any EQ system can only do so much. It’s usually best to give it as much help as you can by good speaker positioning so it’ doesn’t have to do as much work.



Even if you can’t leave it out permanently try pulling the center out in front of the cabinet, keeping raised off the floor, and re-run Audyssey. It might help get rid of more of the tinny sound since it won’t have to EQ out as much of the lower frequencies being reinforced by the cabinet.