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Re: New M22 speakers.... break-in required?
michael_d #272931 09/21/09 06:18 PM
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Please note Mike that my post was humor intended at poking fun of this entire thread, and a few others.

My serious question as I too always thrive to understand things:
By your details above, you have rationalized a theory on the possibility of real speaker break in and it's pretty well explained.

To return to your analogy regarding the tire tube. If we can assume that it takes only one single stretch (or at least one single stretching session) to acclimatize the tube into a state less likely to fail when inflated within the tire and driven upon, is it not reasonable to assume that the polymers in the speaker driver also take very little time to stretch and become acclimatized to prepare it for it's lifetime of vibes. Thus your theory melds nicely with the opinions given by Axiom and several posters that the "breaking in" of speakers occurs during a brief moment during the initial testing of the speakers at the factory and thus the end user does not have to concern themselves with speaker break in.

That is an unscientific hypothesis that makes some sense to me as a possibility from both arguments that have been explained here.

Also:
I do my best to refrain from 'strong adult' language on technical web boards as we have no idea what age is viewing the threads and what their sensitivity levels might be. I'm often the first to make jokes around here and we all get caught on the risque side now and then but this will be my last entry to attempt to discuss this with you seriously if you can't keep it a bit more professional.




With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
Re: New M22 speakers.... break-in required?
michael_d #272936 09/21/09 07:29 PM
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First of all, prior to last night I had no idea who you were, which confused me by your little "my old friend" comment and mis-spelling of my name. I'm thinking, I have no memory of "michael_d", considering your registration date and post count, and any interaction with this person, who obviously has past issues with me.

It was not until I read a post from JohnK, that I realized for whatever reason you changed your screen name from Mdrew, for which I was familiar.

Now that your alias is uncovered to me, and your not some troll stirring up problems with Jason and others, I'm a little confused by some of your comments on how I've treated others, and supposably you in the past.

I've always talked highly of you on this board, shared positive feedback to your questions the best I could, and have spoke highly of you during my phone conversations with Rick and others.

Sorry if you have some bad taste in your mouth about me and it has been bottled up inside you all these years. It is obvious you don't know me.

Jason, I'm sorry I backed you up, you have been very helpful to others on this board on various topics, so I was a bit suprised by the feedback you received. I didn't see anything you did/said wrong to be called a "prick", and had I realized it was mdrew calling you that, I think I would have had a loss for words.

Anyway, it is all good, off to drink some brews before the Springsteen concert tonight. If I lose one friend on the board, I'll pick up 5 more tonight.

God Bless y'all eh


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: New M22 speakers.... break-in required?
michael_d #272939 09/21/09 08:38 PM
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 Originally Posted By: michael_d
Polymers, specifically rubber, have viscoelastic properties (time dependent strain). This, in a nutshell, means that if stress is applied (stretch) over a given period of time, the molecular structure is changed from a pile of sticky intertwined spaghetti, to non sticky rows of straightened spaghetti, making the rubber stronger and more resistant to failure from cracking after the stress is relieved, because the molecules reorientate to their original state with more rigor and defined structure. There are two different approaches to strengthening rubber through its inherent viscoelastic properties: 1) creep, 2) stress relaxation. Both have the same desired affect, which is reorienting the rubber’s molecular structure to make it stronger and more resistant to cracking (failure). Creep is when a constant tension is applied to the rubber and stress relaxation is when constant stress is applied to the rubber, but the rubber is held in constant position and not allowed to continue stretching

Mike,

This is good information, but I don't think it really applies to speaker surround materials. When I read it, I was picturing silly putty. You know the trick that if you pull slowly on a wad of silly putty it will stretch, but if you yank quickly it will snap? That's what you're talking about here, material that is designed to stretch statistically significantly during normal operation.

Speaker surrounds are flexible, yes, but you'll note the that there's enough extra material there -- the bump all the way around -- that allows the cone to travel up and down without pulling the surround material taut, at least if you're operating within the design limits.

Re: New M22 speakers.... break-in required?
SirQuack #272940 09/21/09 08:41 PM
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I don't really know why this thread went south, winter is still about 3 months away.


Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
Re: New M22 speakers.... break-in required?
Adrian #272942 09/21/09 08:54 PM
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Nobody said anything bad about me. What's the problem? \:\)

Re: New M22 speakers.... break-in required?
pmbuko #272943 09/21/09 09:00 PM
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Oh, you're still a problem.


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Re: New M22 speakers.... break-in required?
Adrian #272944 09/21/09 09:23 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Adrian
I don't really know why this thread went south, winter is still about 3 months away.


Yep, y'all dont want to be here just yet...

88/74 and humid.

I'd give it another couple of months.

;\)


Rick
Our Room

smile
Re: New M22 speakers.... break-in required?
SirQuack #272946 09/21/09 09:29 PM
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Murph,

Thanks for that point of view and analysis. Those are my opposing view points as well, which is why I posed the question and theoretical quandary. I do not know the answer and only have questions which are spawned from trying to better understand the mechanics. I have found that troubleshooting and finding the route cause of any situation requires a firm grasp of the theory of why things do what they do and how they do it.

Regarding my “strong adult language”. You must be joking, seriously. This forum is hardly a G rated Disney film. I think you are blowing my horrific behavior out of proportion and your parental tone is hardly justified. It’s not as if I went off on some sort of tirade slewing all sorts of names at anyone and started swearing like a logger. In fact, “prick” is pretty tame by anyone’s standards. I can rattle off many “descriptive” names, verbs, adverbs and adjectives much worse that you hear on prime time TV. But if that is how you view me, and do not wish to converse with me because of that view, then that is your prerogative. I’ve always thought you were pretty cool, but so be it if that is how you feel.

Randy –

I changed my user name for reasons of needing to maintain anonymity. Over the years I have made it a point to not discuss what I do, or who I work for on this board or any other place on the internet, with the exception of professional discussion groups. This is for security reasons. I needed to change it to remove my last name from the public domain. I really shouldn’t be communicating in public at any level, but this is a hobby of mine, and I like the distraction of forums from time to time.

Regardless of who I am, your behavior to me in this thread is A-typical of you. You immediately jump to the conclusion that someone is a troll or up to no good if they are new. Instead of trying to look at the situation from that person’s point of view and understand where they are coming from, you assume the worse and attack. I just haven’t said anything or called you on it for these past years because things generally play out on their own. I am also not a forum etiquette enforcer – I do my best to avoid the drama and only intervene when someone says something really out of line. There have not been many times when I did say something. Now that you’ve done to me, what I’ve witnessed you do to many others over the years, I responded with a defensive posture. But you are correct; I do not know you and I should have tried harder to get to know you. I think you probably have a good heart, and that is a trait that is very important to me. I will try to do so in the future. I would offer a suggestion to you though, try to assume positive intent.

As to my “questionable behavior”, I find my need to have to explain it somewhat absurd. My reaction was nothing more than a response to what I felt was an unsolicited and undeserving response to something I wrote. What was said to me could have easily been phrased at least a dozen different ways that would not have been offensive, if the intent was to discus the point; but he chose to phrase it in a way that was very clearly, to me, intended to be confrontational. In other words, it pissed me off. Then LT decided to join in. In both cases, neither person took the time to read what I wrote, analyze it and attempt to understand my point, or the rationale behind the analogy. No one did from what I can tell. But many did take my comments and make a joke out of them. Not just in this thread either but I notice that I'm being joked at in other threads today as well.

This has been very eye opening to me. After being treated as if I was some kind of “troll”, because you and others (I assume others) didn’t know who I am, I can now fully appreciate how new forum members feel when they get trashed by “the mob” when they do not agree with what is said. Nothing has changed over the years; just the person’s who belong to the mob.

I think I need to take a hiatus from this place for a while.

Re: New M22 speakers.... break-in required?
pmbuko #272947 09/21/09 09:31 PM
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 Originally Posted By: pmbuko
 Originally Posted By: michael_d
Polymers, specifically rubber, have viscoelastic properties (time dependent strain). This, in a nutshell, means that if stress is applied (stretch) over a given period of time, the molecular structure is changed from a pile of sticky intertwined spaghetti, to non sticky rows of straightened spaghetti, making the rubber stronger and more resistant to failure from cracking after the stress is relieved, because the molecules reorientate to their original state with more rigor and defined structure. There are two different approaches to strengthening rubber through its inherent viscoelastic properties: 1) creep, 2) stress relaxation. Both have the same desired affect, which is reorienting the rubber’s molecular structure to make it stronger and more resistant to cracking (failure). Creep is when a constant tension is applied to the rubber and stress relaxation is when constant stress is applied to the rubber, but the rubber is held in constant position and not allowed to continue stretching

Mike,

This is good information, but I don't think it really applies to speaker surround materials. When I read it, I was picturing silly putty. You know the trick that if you pull slowly on a wad of silly putty it will stretch, but if you yank quickly it will snap? That's what you're talking about here, material that is designed to stretch statistically significantly during normal operation.

Speaker surrounds are flexible, yes, but you'll note the that there's enough extra material there -- the bump all the way around -- that allows the cone to travel up and down without pulling the surround material taut, at least if you're operating within the design limits.


Good points. Thanks Peter.

Re: New M22 speakers.... break-in required?
michael_d #272949 09/21/09 10:43 PM
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Hi Mikey.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

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