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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
SirQuack #276072 10/24/09 04:16 AM
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I'll be watching this thread. I'm not quite ready for a projector, but it will probably be my next major purchase after my new computer build (and accessories). I'm really hoping 2010 brings about the projector I want, anyway.

Re: A couple of front projection questions....
CV #276073 10/24/09 04:30 AM
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The 4000 is supposed to be REALLY good. And the starting price (and MSRP) is less than the now "outdated" 3000.

If I had the cash, I'd be getting the 4000.

My next screen will be 2.35:1 as well. I have 16:9 (HDTV) 104" which would be in the range of 130" for a 2.35:1 ratio screen to get the "same size" picture for watching HDTV broadcasts, but WOW. That would be an impressive size for movies.


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
nickbuol #276075 10/24/09 05:37 AM
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Wow, screen sizes are getting CRAZY these days! I can still remember buying my very 1st 'big screen' tv back in my AirForce days... I got my very 1st credit card at this electronics store in Oklahoma City & promptly maxed it out on an enormous 27 inch Toshiba (yes, in 1991 they touted 27 inch tv's as 'BIG SCREEN') stereo tv & a $500 dollar Hi-Fi VCR with 'shuttle' rewind & fast forward (also known as 'THE SHIT' back in those days). And let me tell you I was one popular dude in those baracks. We'd cram up to a dozen guys in one of those cramped rooms to watch 'Rambo' or 'Terminator' or something like that. Ah the good ol days!

Now I'm on my second 65" widescreen tv and yet there are those on this board with 106" & higher projector screens... My God at this rate they're going to have to start building bigger houses because in 20 years you'll be able to buy a 210" laser tv... & my poor ol 65" Sharp will be demoted to the bedroom tv!


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
Micah #276078 10/24/09 06:11 AM
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Reading a little on the PT-AE4000U, it does sound like a tremendous value. Stop making me think of switching up my priorities. Seriously, guys.

Re: A couple of front projection questions....
CV #276081 10/24/09 08:32 AM
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It's impressive that Panasonic set the price on the 4000 so that others may bring their prices down to an affordable level, I like that. And yes AE4000U does look like it would a great projector to have, what about this screen ... Da-Lite Advantage Manual


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
RickF #276087 10/24/09 12:10 PM
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Hi Rick,

Just a comment in passing: Don't eliminate DLP front projectors from your consideration. In the various manufacturer demos I've seen, including Panasonics, I've generally found that the DLP front-projector images seem to have more "punch"--better contrast than the LCD front-projector images. It's a purely subjective judgment, but when I leave the Panasonic demo rooms, and they are quite impressive, and walk into an Optoma DLP demo room, there is something about the DLP image--the brightness and contrast--that I prefer. I used to criticize LCD projectors for the visible pixels, but with Panasonics, that's now a thing of the past, so it isn't that.

Full discolosure: I've been watching a Samsung DLP rear-projection HD set for five years or more now. There's something slightly more "dynamic" in DLP images that I seem to prefer, but is that because I've been watching DLP HD for so many years?

Regards,

Alan


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
alan #276089 10/24/09 12:25 PM
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Hi Rick

I built my own screen. I bought some screen material on ebay, then used some 1/4 strapping and L brackets, wrapped the strapping in black felt. Took about 4 hours with help of my wife and for less then $200 we have an awsome 136" screen.

I am using the AE900, and the picture is great. I still have at least another 1500 hours left on the bulb so I won't be in the market for a new projector for another 3 to 4 years.

Now this screen option only works if you have a dedicated room like us. But it did save us many hundreds of dollars and I don't feel as I have given up any picture quality doing it this way.

At the sizes we you are talking about, I don't think the black bars on the top or bottom will bother you for 2.35:1 movies. I don't even notice them.

Now if you need to get the screen out of the way, then the DIY option won't work.

See this thread for pics.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=13237&Number=185180#Post185180


paul

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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
alan #276097 10/24/09 06:07 PM
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 Originally Posted By: alan
Hi Rick,

Just a comment in passing: Don't eliminate DLP front projectors from your consideration. In the various manufacturer demos I've seen, including Panasonics, I've generally found that the DLP front-projector images seem to have more "punch"--better contrast than the LCD front-projector images. It's a purely subjective judgment, but when I leave the Panasonic demo rooms, and they are quite impressive, and walk into an Optoma DLP demo room, there is something about the DLP image--the brightness and contrast--that I prefer. I used to criticize LCD projectors for the visible pixels, but with Panasonics, that's now a thing of the past, so it isn't that.

The old visible pixels, or "screen door effect" was from LCD projectors which shined the light through a panel. What you were seeing were the wires running to each cell of the matrix. Newer projectors use LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon), these are chips which have the cells touching each other being controlled directly by the chip surface below them, thus no wires. But light can't shine through a chip, so the base of each cell is reflective so the light picks up a color as it bounces off the chip and out through the lens.

DLP is also mirror based (also called micro-mirror device), but each mirror can be moved by the chip below it. When the pixel is off the mirror reflects the light onto a black sink, when it's on it's out through the color filter and then through the lens. The problem I (and many others have) with single-chip DLPs is the filter is actually a wheel with red, green, and blue sections, which spins rapidly behind the lens. First the chip shows the red pixels while the red filter is there, and when it rotates to the green it quickly flips the mirrors to the green values, and so on. This is happening hundreds of times a second, so it shouldn't be visible. But peripheral vision is much more sensitive to movement, so I catch rainbows out of the corner of my eyes and I get sick in about 4 minutes of watching a single-chip DLP.

That brings out the 3-chip DLPs. They're pretty much the same, but there's a separate chip for each of the primary colors (RGB), and the filter is before a beam combiner (think prism), the combined beam then exits through the lens.

The 3-chip DLP is my pick for best looking projector of the current technologies. LCD or LCoS, just doesn't have the punch or depth, and the color-wheel based DLPs make me want to close my eyes and crawl away.

Panasonic does build 3-chip DLP, 1080p projectors. The PT-DW10000U and PT-DZ12000U fit the bill. But at around $40k to $50k, it's hard to imagine many people using them in their home theater.

I'll stick with my direct view plasma for now. Maybe the laser projectors will be cheaper, they should have a massive contrast ratio. The only thing I worry about with lasers, is their primary colors don't exactly match the hues selected by standards boards which were based upon phosphorescence of specific materials (which is why CRTs and plasma displays are the only technologies can be considered reference for color--but many makers don't use the exact materials anyway).


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
ClubNeon #276098 10/24/09 06:54 PM
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Hunh, I thought LCoS was dead, but it's taken over LCD?


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Re: A couple of front projection questions....
ClubNeon #276099 10/24/09 07:59 PM
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 Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
 Originally Posted By: alan
Hi Rick,

Just a comment in passing: Don't eliminate DLP front projectors from your consideration. In the various manufacturer demos I've seen, including Panasonics, I've generally found that the DLP front-projector images seem to have more "punch"--better contrast than the LCD front-projector images. It's a purely subjective judgment, but when I leave the Panasonic demo rooms, and they are quite impressive, and walk into an Optoma DLP demo room, there is something about the DLP image--the brightness and contrast--that I prefer. I used to criticize LCD projectors for the visible pixels, but with Panasonics, that's now a thing of the past, so it isn't that.

The old visible pixels, or "screen door effect" was from LCD projectors which shined the light through a panel. What you were seeing were the wires running to each cell of the matrix. Newer projectors use LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon), these are chips which have the cells touching each other being controlled directly by the chip surface below them, thus no wires. But light can't shine through a chip, so the base of each cell is reflective so the light picks up a color as it bounces off the chip and out through the lens.

DLP is also mirror based (also called micro-mirror device), but each mirror can be moved by the chip below it. When the pixel is off the mirror reflects the light onto a black sink, when it's on it's out through the color filter and then through the lens. The problem I (and many others have) with single-chip DLPs is the filter is actually a wheel with red, green, and blue sections, which spins rapidly behind the lens. First the chip shows the red pixels while the red filter is there, and when it rotates to the green it quickly flips the mirrors to the green values, and so on. This is happening hundreds of times a second, so it shouldn't be visible. But peripheral vision is much more sensitive to movement, so I catch rainbows out of the corner of my eyes and I get sick in about 4 minutes of watching a single-chip DLP.

That brings out the 3-chip DLPs. They're pretty much the same, but there's a separate chip for each of the primary colors (RGB), and the filter is before a beam combiner (think prism), the combined beam then exits through the lens.

The 3-chip DLP is my pick for best looking projector of the current technologies. LCD or LCoS, just doesn't have the punch or depth, and the color-wheel based DLPs make me want to close my eyes and crawl away.

Panasonic does build 3-chip DLP, 1080p projectors. The PT-DW10000U and PT-DZ12000U fit the bill. But at around $40k to $50k, it's hard to imagine many people using them in their home theater.

I'll stick with my direct view plasma for now. Maybe the laser projectors will be cheaper, they should have a massive contrast ratio. The only thing I worry about with lasers, is their primary colors don't exactly match the hues selected by standards boards which were based upon phosphorescence of specific materials (which is why CRTs and plasma displays are the only technologies can be considered reference for color--but many makers don't use the exact materials anyway).



Uuuhhhh.... Ok can I just say that your knowledge base in all this stuff scares me! \:o


My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD
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