Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Martin Logan Electrostatic

Hello,

I have a two year old Epic 60-500 system which I love. But the other day, while browsing for flat screens at my local best buy magnolia HT store, I listened to a pair of their Martin Logan electrostatic speakers. I was blown away with the sound from the movie playing in their demo room. I went home and played the same blu-ray (x-men wolverine) but it didn't sound the same. The electrostatics had more high freq sounds that I don't hear at home. Are Martin Logans that much better where one could hear the difference in just a few seconds? Or maybe this was from room treatment or just my subjective hearing. The Martin Logans are MUCH more expensive than the Axiom. Towers range from 970 to 1600 each (or more for the fancier ones) and the center is 1400 to 1600. So, anyone else try any of these out?

-Eric

ML's are very good speakers, and yes your experience could also be due to room variations between yours and the demo room and your thought about the costs. Sounds like you might be inline for M80s if you liked the upper frequencies a little more pronounced as the ML's did.

Try to listen critically to the M60s at louder volumes, start low then increase to say 85db and up. Listen how the sound changes when you reach a certain mark on the dial. I have found them to 'open up' and the upper end becomes more apparent when more power is fed to them, this may sound closer to what the ML's sounded like. This is also what the M80s sound like to me at all volume levels, this is their gift to us M80 owners

It could certainly have been a volume variation. The MLs are also a significantly different design than the Axioms; they rely far more on reflections.

My boss had some MLs for awhile. I liked them well enough, but not really better than my M80s. Psychology comes into play, too...

I thought that the electrostatic design meant that they can sound great but are highly directional?

You know its funny you mention that because I was up at Frys in Indy a few weeks back & I stumbled into their Home Theater room for no other reason than to 'snicker' at their feable attempts at HT. Well, to my surprise I was QUITE surprised at how well it sounded in there!!!

And most of their speakers were Klipsch, Cerwin Vega, Kenwood, etc... At first I couldn't believe my ears, none of these speakers cost over $650 bucks... PER PAIR!!! How could they sound THIS GOD DAMNED GOOD'??? After standing around with my lower jaw on the floor for a few minutes I remembered back to some of my first attempts at car stereo. I'd gone to some car stereo stores and was equally BLOWN AWAY with speakers set up in their demo rooms. But I always found after I'd buy a pair that they never sounded anywhere near as good once I had them in my car... Why?

Eventually I learned not to go by the way they sounded in those demo rooms, but instead I'd go to Car Audio competitions where you could hear them in cars. Or I would find out what sounded good in one of my buddies car systems and go from there. With sales hinging from the way their speakers sound on the sales floor, its obvious they do a lot to make sure they sound GREAT in their demo rooms! I'm quite sure the same can be said for Frys & Best Buy & all those guys. I'm not saying the Martin Logans aren't great speakers mind you. I'm just saying it would be interesting to take your M60's down there and give em a spin in their demo room and see how they sound in a direct comparison with the Martin Logans in their demo room. Under the same conditions the Axioms might sound more detailed to your ear as well. Then again maybe not. It is possible after all that to your ear the ML's just sound sweeter.

It's also worth mentioning that in the audio realm, sometimes our ears react rather excitedly to a new sound. Guess our ear drums like getting some 'strange' every now and then too!

I listened to the same exact speakers a while back. I think they retailed for $2200 a pair, correct? I was impressed also BUT they are not any better than the M80s imo. Maybe not even as good for the money. Plus the damn things have to be plugged into a wall outlet. I'll never buy speakers again that have to be plugged in.

Hi Eric and all,

It's important to keep in mind that Martin-Logans, like most other electrostatic planar (flat-panel) radiators, are dipole designs, which means there is an almost equal amount of radiated sound from the rear of the panel, out of phase, as there is from the front of the speaker. Consequently the mix of reflected sounds plust the forward-radiated sound, sometimes gives dipole speakers an expansive soundfield that's certainly different from standard dynamic forward radiating speakers.

It's a flattering and seductive effect, but it makes dipole speakers very tricky to set up and very dependent on the room, plus the expanded soundstage often comes at the expense of precise imaging. Certainly, electrostatic speakers are capable of very uncolored neutral midrange, although that isn't always the case. I've heard Martin Logans sound quite good (a friend of mine in Boston had a pair of Aerius Martin Logans, if memory serves) and really lousy. A Martin Logan home theater demo at CES had one of the most colored and "tunnelly" sounding center channels I've ever heard. Plus the "sweet spot" with some electrostatic speakers is extremely critical--if you move your head a couple of inches, the highs and imaging disappear or radically shift.

I think we're all fascinated by the technology, except for the polarizing voltage (having to connect each speaker to an AC source is a huge disadvantage) but in the end, I do not believe that electrostatic reproducers have any intrinsic superiority to really well designed dynamic drivers such as the Axiom M80s, M60s, M22s, etc. Moreover, dynamic drivers are able to play cleanly at much louder levels than most electrostatics.

Sometimes just hearing different technology speakers in demo rooms can persuade you that there is something "better" than your home experience---often it's just the change in the listening environment and psycho-acoustical expectations at work.

Regards,
Alan

Eric, the best thing to do is try them in your own environment. The local electronic shop I deal with, was going to allow me to bring some Studio 100's home to compare with my M80's (when I originally purchased them).

I think you just took my 'ear drums like getting some strange' comment and made it sound more sophisticated.

Oh really, you should have taken them up on that offer. I would have been very interested in a direct comparison between the M80's and the Studio 100's. In my opinion (and I've never heard a single Paradigm speaker mind you) they are most likely on par with the M80's, and I was very attracted to them. They are a sexy looking speaker. However Axiom had a better 'package' going, and this is why I ended up with an Epic 80/800 home theater instead of some Studio 100's up front complimented with some other center, bass and surround speakers.

Oh and I must say, I couldn't be happier that I did!