Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Buying Used Speakers....

Ok, another question for youz guyz... I just got an offer to buy a used 5.1 Axiom HT set (maple I think). The guy bought it about 2 1/2 to 3 years ago, I didn't ask if he was the original owner but I will tomorrow. He wasn't sure what series it was but he said he paid approx $1500. I need to see them tomorrow and discuss pricing.

Now, i've never purchased used speakers before so what should I be looking out for ? Gimme details, anything that will help spot an issue.

Other than the obvious cosmetic problems, dings, scrapes etc. I would listen for odd noises such as buzzing from tweeters or one speaker sounding different/off from the opposite pair with full 5 channel stereo being used as the source from the reciever, this way they should all be playing similar sounds, using a mono setting would work even better. Other than that just listen to YOUR music and movie types to see if the Axioms fit your music/sound quality tastes, just like any other speaker from a store.

Ok... simple enough... I thought there was some special tapping on the drivers or something of the sorts

At higher volume, you might want to bring your hand close to every driver to make sure they all are working. At very low volume, do the same with your ears. That should at least reassure you that all the drivers are operating.

Keep in mind the warranty will be void, it is not transferable.

I don't get why a warranty can't be transferable?!?!? Its the same damn product being used in another house by someone else. If the product was meant to screw up it will, the makers should keep it valid no matter who owns it in those 5 years.

Just found out what the package is...

M40ti
VP100
QS4

what is this worth ? if in good condition ?

And what are the M40ti's like ?

How much?

M40's are discontinued, but were highly regarded by their owners. They are like the M50's but with only one woofer. If he paid $1500, it must have been CDN$ when the exchange rate was different than now. That seems a bit high. I think that it would be difficult to find something new that you'd like better than this for less than about $750.

I do recall the M40 being on sale for a ridiculously low price when they were discontinued. I forget how much though.

anywhere between 400 and 500

That would be a great deal imo.

If nothing else it is a Very good package to use as a starting point into this hobby

Sounds reasonable to me too. As Jason mentioned, this can be a good starting point.

What sub are you going to get for this system?

hes got a sub that comes with it... not sure what.

This isn't a starting point, I already have my HT system setup.
I wanted to use this for either a bedroom system OR sell off the PV100 use the QS4 as back surrounds (7.1) and use the M40's and sub in my jam room.

Ok, so what is in the main HT? And please do post pics we love audio/HT porn

Especially when Cam sends it!
Isn't it time to vote again on something?

I need to take new pics of each setup.

HR room:
Monster HDP-2400
Panny 50" PZ800
Pioneer Elite SC-07
HK FL8380
SA Explorer 4250HD
PS3
Monitor Audio RS6
Monitor Audio RSCLR
QS8 (should be on order by Monday)
Acoustic Audio HDSUB12 (incredible unit under $200)

Bedroom:

Monster HDP-2400
Sammy 42" PN42B450
PS3 SLIM
SA Explorer 4250HD

I like your choices and silly me, I forgot you had the MA's

lol np dude & thanks!

The MA's just replaced my older Energy Connoisseur C5's, C-C1 and C-R1's.

What are you thoughts on the differences going from the C5's to the RS6's?

man, I aint great at giving these revues... But I can't really give an honest review at the moment, the RS6's only have 10-15 hours on them and i'm still getting use to them.

But off the bat, they have a little more bottom end to them. I find the RS6 reproduces voices better than the C5's. I was listening to Zakk Wylde's As Dead as Yesterday (just an overall killer track) last night and the acoustics sounded much fuller and better dispersed in the room. For example, when he hits the first note you can feel that deep low end (down tuned), you can almost feel the string buzzing. Better defined I can say. The C5 isnt a slouch, but the RS6 sounds a little tighter. And Zakk's voice on this one sends chills down my back now... Now I know what certain reviewers mean when they say "With eyes closed, I couldnt pin point where the voice was coming from".

Hell, I don't know if that made any sense but its prety much what I felt.

Huh! I just checked Monitor Audio's website, the RS(silver) series has now changed to the R"X"(silver) series. I wonder if they made some changes to them?

You did a great job. Your comments are similar to my thoughts if I think back to when I was looking at speakers.

They did... for starters, its a little deeper than the RS6 and they added something new to the C-CAM cones they use. The new drivers have dimples on them, kinda looks like a golf ball, they call it RST. Heres a little more info on it :

The RST cone profile comprises a radial pattern of surface dimples. Our simulations and listening tests have proved that the dimples significantly increase cone rigidity allowing C-CAM/RST cones to resist mechanical bending forces, which can twist the shape of lesser cones and produce distorted sound. The strengthening effect of the RST dimples means that we can use thinner, lighter more responsive C-CAM cones, providing speed and accuracy but offering greatly reduced distortion. The RST dimples also help to displace standing waves that can propagate on the cone's surface.

Reg. "standing waves"...I believe that is also the principle behind Scan Speak's "slit cone" drivers and also Elac is using an interesting cone profile(triangular shapes as opposed to dimpling) to make their drivers lighter and more rigid. Could be the next generation of transducer improvements?

I'm going out on a bit of a limb here having heard the MA Silver series and the Axiom M40s both in house.
If you like the clarity of the Energy Connoisseur or MA Silver series, i expect you will find the Axiom M40s to be much more recessed.

I reviewed the M40s and M60s in an A/B test in this thread some time ago. Incidentally that is also the thread where i inadvertently, but correctly guessed (i was not told at the factory tour), three major upcoming Axiom additions and changes to their product offerings.

I posted my opinions on the Monitor Audios here.

Joe, the M40 was essentially an M3 installed in a tower enclosure which was tuned for much lower bass extension. A study of the SoundStage review with NRC measurements might be helpful. Note that the measurement of the low point in the bass impedance saddle indicates that the enclosure was tuned to about 40Hz(the M3 is tuned to about 60Hz).

Hey Chess,

Thanks for the read... I was actually wondering how different the 40's sounded from the 60's. You had the "60ti" right? is there a big difference with the 60v2 ?? or is it just a new name for the same product ?

If you can, you should check out and test the RX series from MA. Not certain if you did an indept test and review of the RS line, but the RX sound different. When I did my final test on the RS6 before putting the cash down the dealer had a new pair of RX's in piano black. Had about 20 hrs of play time on them and I tested it with a few tracks I used on the RS6 and there was a decent difference between the two in the vocal range, piano seemed sharper and the notes rolled off a little faster. Sounded pretty good... I liked the RS6 more, maybe because it was properly broken in? or the fact the cone was different? but the price tag on the RX next to the RS (end of line models) helped with my final choice.

If both line where still available, I think i would have held off a month and went back to test them again side by side. Just to see if the RX sounded different after a longer period of play hours under its belt.

Johnk,

thanks for the link, ill give a read.

Used speakers are a smart buy, in my opinion. I picked up a pair of Dahlquist DQM905s for $60. I did a bit of refinishing of the veneered wood cabinets, slapped a pair of supertweeters on top, and love them.

Picked up a pair of M22Tis and VP150 for $400. Still smiling. If you keep your eyes open you will find some outstanding deals on used (and new) speakers. I've seen some terrific deals on Focal floor standers and even some Revels. These are hard times and there are many folks who are parting with their pride and joys out of dire necessity. There are some manufacturers who have slashed prices to clear inventory and realize some cash flow.

Forget the concept of break in.
Speakers sound different and having a pair for a long time sets the 'reference' in your mind.
Often speakers just sound different and not necessarily 'better', especially when comparing two quality models in tandem.
A good a/b instant switch listening test is really the best way to discern the subtle differences effectively.

That aside, i have not heard the new MA lineup with the exception of the Platinum bookshelf models as noted in this more recent review.
Price certainly sets a limit when looking at new models. I would rather wait about a year and see those 'new' models come onto the used market for half the price before buying. You can save a ton of cash going this way and if anyone buys 2k+ worth of speaker gear, odds are they take good care of it.

I do love the Monitor Audio sound though. If they only made the Silver series in a true 3 way design and i bet i would've bought them long ago. If you prefer slightly heavier bass, they have a great sound.

I agree... but theres "some" things I need to buy new. I guess its ease of mind.

But if all works out, Ill work that deal tomorrow for $300 - $400 if he doesnt go for it, ill grab is surrounds at least.

I know the "break in" topic is like religion or politics in some places... but I'd rather be safe than sorry when getting a new pair. As for listening differences, I do beleive it does some difference.

As a guitar player, i've been through SOOOOOOO many cab's you wouldn't beleive. I have 3 4x12's at the moment and I don't even jam anymore. And buying many of these cabs new, I have noticed a difference in sound after approx 20 to 30 hours (a month or so)put into them. I'm not saying its a night and difference, but the speakers do losen up and it does change the dynamics of it. My main player is a VHT 4x12 that I purchased new and plled it out of the box myself, no floor demo. Picked it about 3 years ago, I've been running it with the exact same gear... same tube amp and tube preamp, always kept the same cables and I always use them in the same direction (one end IN the other OUT) and the cab as tightend up over the 3 years. In fact, when I purchased that VHT cab I bought 2 of them at the same time. I have always had the 2nd as a spare because they sound so great. These cabs are made of the same wood, use the same speakers, I changed the speaker wire on both cabs to thicker 12gage (using the same reel of cable), sealed the inside with window/door caulking on the inside to tighten it up and they sound different. One has hardly been played and the other is used every 2nd day. So yeah, I think this is also possible with home speakers. I'm basing this on listening to the speakers I tried over the years and the experience I have as a 15 + year musician gigging his cabs. BTW, my regular user name elsewhere is 4x12 just can't have enough of them


Like religion, no one thinks the same thing

I have a pair of M40s that I use primarily as music speakers. I really like the sound - only caution is that they're big cabinets but small drivers, so there'll be a limit to how loudly they can play.

Hey Bridg,

Thanks for the input.. but I don't know if this deal will go through... Seems like i'm dealing with 15 y/o kid who doesnt give a crap. We arranged that I call him at 10am today to confirm a meeting time, called left him 4 msg's, emailed him and still havent gotten a response. I hate when people act this way. If your gonna sell/buy be serious about, don't jerk people around.

Keep you all posted on this one.

Ohla, if he's broken an arrangement to talk or meet up with you over these speakers, he might be playing you off someone else to get a better price. If it's me, I'd leave another message and tell him you've changed your mind and will look elsewhere.

Hey Adrian,

Yep thats what he was doing... I called him from another # and used a different name he picked up. and he was willing to sell.

I checked them out tonight and honestly, I really wonder what "good condition" means to some people!! First of all, I get there and i'm greated by some fine looking 17 y/o girl and she takes me downstairs (yeah, i wish), some 16 y/o kid is in the room. So he walks me over to see the goods... his amp is on the floor, the cd players on its back, I could hardly see the floors with all the junk kicking around. So I walk in and step on something so i was like shit... I turn around and realise its one of the M40's grils... Dudes, the QS8's where so banged up, they used 3 different types of brackets to mounts these up at some point so they had holes EVERYWHERE on the back, the front grills where falling appart (actually broken), I couldn't pull the bottom part out to see the speakers... So i was like thats odd... the kid said "i glued it on because it was falling off", the fronts where scratched to hell, the center & sub looked clean. The sub was a Sound Dynamics (or something like that).

Seriously in bad shape... I was pist. This dude made me lose 40minute drive up there, about 3 days to hunt him down for something that wasn't worth more than $250 in that condition. So I offered him $200 and he refused... hes like "I can get $500 easy for these" i wished him Good luck!!

Geee.... what a waste of time!

"$500 eh!! so you think you can sell them for more than a NEW pair of comparable Axioms?"



::breaks speaker cabinets over punks head so that grills will now match::

But, I did find a pair of near mint M60's for $500 online! The dude purchased the EPIC60 set but finds the front too big so he never used them. Could be interesting!

Good Luck!

Way back when......

Well, when Infinity was known for speakers like their $20K "Reference Standard":



A guy on a work bulletin board listed some Infinity floorstanders for $800... but he had to sell them very quickly. I looked them up and they were sweet.... sold for something like $6000 new and they stood taller than me. He listed them as 3 years old, but in like-new condition. I decided that if they were as good as I hoped, I would just give the guy an even thousand since $800 seemed awfully low and he was probably selling them out of desperation for some financial emergency.

I call him, and it all sounds good. I set up a time to go to his place an hour away.... and he's not there. His wife is, though, and says he was "out" and must have forgotten the appointment. At the risk of sounding snooty, this was SO white-trash I kept hearing "Bad Boys, Bad Boys, What You Gonna Do? What You Gonna Do When They Come For You" in my head. The woman, pregnant, was in a way-oversized T Shirt, pregnant (yeah, she was SO pregnant it's worth mentioning again), with a toddler in her arms and a smoke hanging out of her mouth. Crap everywhere.... so you had to look down when you walked. Which was good, because I wanted to avert my glaze anyway. A Rottweiler alternated low growls with stopping to scratch himself.

So she takes me to the "den" to see the speakers, and these things were beat.... each had a foot broken off, the veneer was coming off in places, cones dented, etc. I asked the woman if she was sure this was the right pair, because they were described as "like new"? She assured me they were and asked if I wanted to hear them. By this time, though, my mind had already started to imagine the fleas biting my ankles and attaching themselves to my socks and shoes for me to take home. I declined, politely telling her they were WAY too big for my living room, and left.

It wasn't until I was a little ways into the ride home when I started to get pissed for him wasting my time by giving me a flat-out lie about their condition.

I think the guy was too embarrassed to meet me in person after the way he described them, so he left that up to his wife/girlfriend. And I decided that he probably was once a pretty successful drug dealer who had money for such things, but his life has been going downhill since.

LOL

That actaully put a smile on my face! I was still a little pissed off about the situation this morning...

thanks Mark!

Yeah, it's funny in hindsight. But at the time, I was psyched to get an awesome deal on a set of speakers...as you probably were as well.

Isn't the lyric "And if ya' let me cool you one time, you'll be my regular style" ? Or have I been hearing that one wrong for 30 years?

I think it's "stop".

yep. its "stop".

Mark, is that an active crossover at the bottom of the pic of the Infinity tower you posted?

I dunno. If I remember right, the IRS system was like $20K...meaning I never even heard one! Looks like it though!

And, to the rest of you: "Pfffffffftttt"! :p