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#280029 - 11/20/09 11:58 PM Re: Major sub issues [Re: JohnK]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
I'm just catching up on this thread, but have a couple of comments.

For that null in the 90-110 Hz range, I would look to your M22s as they are contributing most of the sound in this range. Try playing with their positioning if you can.

For bass traps to be effective, you need them as thick as possible and you need as many as possible. For the corners I would go with 6" thick minimum, and would fill the corner solid as Chris suggested if you can. Make sure the stuff you use is a minumum of 3lb/cu.ft. in density or its useless for LF.

You need to fill all 4 corners at a minimum, and if you can, also treat wall/floor and wall ceiling intarfaces as well.

You might be better served to spend the money on a second sub. From reading about others here that have done this, it goes a long way in smoothing out the frequency response.
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#280033 - 11/21/09 01:56 AM Re: Major sub issues [Re: fredk]
Potatohead Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 670
Loc: Vancouver
 Originally Posted By: fredk
I'm just catching up on this thread, but have a couple of comments.

For that null in the 90-110 Hz range, I would look to your M22s as they are contributing most of the sound in this range. Try playing with their positioning if you can.

For bass traps to be effective, you need them as thick as possible and you need as many as possible. For the corners I would go with 6" thick minimum, and would fill the corner solid as Chris suggested if you can. Make sure the stuff you use is a minumum of 3lb/cu.ft. in density or its useless for LF.

You need to fill all 4 corners at a minimum, and if you can, also treat wall/floor and wall ceiling intarfaces as well.

You might be better served to spend the money on a second sub. From reading about others here that have done this, it goes a long way in smoothing out the frequency response.


"Unfortunately" I have the in/on wall version of the 22's, so I can't move them. I can physically feel them putting out decent bass when the sub is off, so I think I probably just had the sub too high in level when I performed the test at that higher frequency, which I only did once. I was just charting the graph so volume wasn't really important, so I didn't bother to change it when I moved the sub around. I had the LPF set at 90 hz, so it makes sense to me.

After easing my mind of this for a few hours tonight and watching the hockey game, I think I do (and my wife, surprisingly) agree with you in that the next step should probably be a second sub. Why spend even a few hundred bucks and hours of my time on some traps which don't look too hot, when I can put that towards a second sub which will help more anyway? I think I'll do the traps after that, and first reflection panels. I think those things look cool... Kind of hardcore \:\)

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#280034 - 11/21/09 02:12 AM Re: Major sub issues [Re: Potatohead]
BigHonu Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 198
Loc: In the middle of the sea
One more sub! You have a smart wife!

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#280049 - 11/21/09 09:46 AM Re: Major sub issues [Re: BigHonu]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
+1 on the smart wife!

FWIW, trapping works very well for stuff over 100Hz and this can still affect bass a lot. Since you can't move your M22s around, that corner trapping may help out with the null around 100Hz.

I spent a lot of hours looking for a solution to help with the sub 100Hz stuff including a studio design site, and its just not that easy.

Another thing you can try if you have nulls around the crossover area is to run the M22s full range and set your AVR to LFE + mains. This is what Earl Geddes does (his mains roll off at around 50Hz) to help fill in the mid bass. There are a couple of members here who do this as well and say they get good results.

If you are serious about tackling this, it is worth while to figure out REW. Its really not that bad once you get it set up.
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#280170 - 11/22/09 04:37 PM Re: Major sub issues [Re: fredk]
Potatohead Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 670
Loc: Vancouver
Audyssey set my W22's to small, so I think I'll just leave them there. I watched Valkyrie Blu-Ray last night and in a word, it was fantastic. The scene at the beginning in Africa, and then the bombing scene when they are in the shelter with his family... Just amazing, hard bass. The shelter scene I was not expecting and I almost spilled my drink. I think what I did certainly helped, although a second sub is a definate possibility down the road, same with the trapping.

I am having a very small issue with my Panasonic BD-55 dropping the HDMI link once in a while, maybe once every couple movies, but then it picks it up again within seconds... Kind of weird. It was really bad on one input in the Denon, tried another and it's 90% better. I bought another cable as well and will try it out if it doesn't sort of fix itself. I have a 6' run from the BD-55 to the Denon and 20' to the projector... Perhaps this player just doesn't like longer runs.

Anyway, at this point I am 90% satisfied and can start to enjoy. Thanks again everyone for your help.




Edited by Potatohead (11/22/09 04:38 PM)

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#280376 - 11/24/09 04:05 PM Re: Major sub issues [Re: Potatohead]
Potatohead Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 670
Loc: Vancouver
Quick question:

Currently have the crossover for the W22's and LPF in the receiver both set at 80 hz, the W22's are set to small. If I set the LPF to 90 in the receiver, but leave the crossover at 80, does this accomplish anything? Seems to me it would just be like moving both the LPF and crossover to 90, unless you had your speakers set to large.

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#280381 - 11/24/09 04:38 PM Re: Major sub issues [Re: Potatohead]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10420
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
LPF= Low Pass Filter?

My Denon has a LFE setting seperate from the crossover and I seem to remember reading it is recommended to run that one around 120hz, just in case the sound engineer added some LFE that high up in the range and small speakers wouldn't do it justice so it then is routed to the sub.
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#280386 - 11/24/09 04:54 PM Re: Major sub issues [Re: jakewash]
Potatohead Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 670
Loc: Vancouver
Yeah, low pass filter, it's under the "Bass Setting" in my Denon.

That makes perfect sense, I'll try that. The fronts would still produce sound in the non - LFE channel below the LPF setting, so some overlap there can't hurt.

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#280420 - 11/24/09 09:56 PM Re: Major sub issues [Re: Potatohead]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10644
Tater, there wouldn't be any "overlap"; the setting for the low pass filter on the LFE channel affects only that, and none of it, regardless of what frequency you pick for the setting, is played by the speakers.
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#280422 - 11/24/09 10:04 PM Re: Major sub issues [Re: JohnK]
Potatohead Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 670
Loc: Vancouver
Right, perhaps my terminology was incorrect. I just meant numeric overlap. I bumped the LFE setting from 80 - 100 hz.

I can't get enough of this bombing scene in the Valyrie blu-ray. The initial impact of the first bomb is just awesome, I've watched it about six nights in a row now... hah.

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