Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Given the choice btn side-by-side150's or M80s...

Hmmmm.... the only conclusion I've been able to come up with for this one is... garlic?

And they told me it was oregano.

I think I was reading some of your stuff awhile back that made me go with M3's across the front. After having them on their sides for a bit, I've repositioned the L and R speakers and now all are sitting upright...as numerous people here advised me to do from the beginning...

Horizontal dispersion is excellent and the center M3 sounds good at each seat of my sofa.

That is an interesting question. When I was at the Axiom plant to purchase my speakers about 4 years ago, I asked that very question; should I get a VP150 or 2 M2's. The answer I got was I should get 2 VP150's. I told them that I hadn't bugeted for that. They said the VP150 was the way to go. It was designed for that purpose.

I do like my VP150 but will agree that it is the weakest speaker in my HT room for the it's purpose. Again, I am not saying it is week. But I think Dean is right, it's the male voice that sometimes sounds odd, never the female. I used to think had more to do with the actual recording than the speaker, now I am not so sure.

It is interesting, that you can buy an M60 for almost the same price as a VP150. Even thought the VP150 has one more driver, it isn't an M60. For those of us that have projectors and screens or that can accomodate an M60 / 80 center, it might be a good alternative.

paul

When I picked up my system 1.5 years ago, the Axiom experts told me in no uncertain terms that the VP150 would make a better center than an M22 or dual M2s. I agree that the horizontal center has become the agreed way to do things, even if it isn't best.

Dean, its interesting that you think the M22 sounds so similar to the M80 as a center. I came very close to getting a single M22 as a center, but was talked out of it in favour of the dual M2s. Dean has me wondering if I would hear any difference with a single M22.

Dean, the good news on your hearing is that it will dull with old age. I hated big crowds and power tools when I was younger. I found power tools particularly painful to listen to. I still hate big crowds for other reasons, but don't find the noise as bothersome as I used to.

This conversation is quite timely for me. When I finish work today (yeah I'm working now! ), I will be attempting to finish a basement including an HT at my in-laws place over the next 4 days. While building the HT we can either plan for single or dual horizontal centers (above and below screen of course), or plan for say 3 M60's or 3 M80's (or whatever brand they decide on) across the front as LCR's. So apologies for the long post, but here is my understanding of center channels. Please correct me where I may be wrong or misinformed.

1 - Horizontal centers were developed primarily for 'ergonomics' and provide good horizontal sound dispersion (but not necessarily good vertical dispersion)

2 - Three identical LCR speakers oriented similarly will make for the best soundstage if you can make the ergonomics work (i.e. good horizontal and vertical dispersion characteristics)

So if I am correct on this I will try to steer my in-laws towards 3 identical LCR's like M60's or 80's. I think we can build that into a false wall with an acoustically transparent screen.

Please let me know if I am on the right track here. Thanks!!!

A vertical center gives better horizontal dispersion because the tweeters are not interfering with each other in the horizontal plane.

A horizontal center is good enough for most folks, just not the 'HT obsessed'.

I see no one around here that resembles that remark

Since I'm not obsessing here , I just reread this thread and noted that Dean finds the M22 and M80 almost identical as center channels. Interesting. It could be a good way to save a few dollars instead of all M60's or 80's across the front. Of course if we go this way my next step will be asking for acoustically transparent screen recommendations! Not there yet.

Just to play devil's advocate, is there any reason why a horizontal center could be considered better than 3 identical vertical LCR's?

Keep in mind I'm a perfectly happy W150 owner - I just have an open canvas so want to make the best choices for my in-laws as I'll also be watching movies over there.

I’ve also A/B’d them as mains and also found them about 95% similar when both the M80s and M22s are paired with a sub which is why you see me recommend the M22 + sub route so often in other forums. Like Jakewash has said the biggest difference is in the mid to upper bass where the M80s + sub combo has more authority.

I’m intrigued by your dual M2s. It’s my understanding they are also very similar to the M22 and M80. Also based on what I’ve heard I would agree with Axiom’s advice to you to go dual over and under if you can’t get an exact match because of height issues under the screen.

I found that dual M22s above and below gave a vertical wall of sound effect the was very movie theater like w/o horizontal wall of sound effect that mucks up the imaging of the front soundstage.

A single M22 or M80 worked above my screen in the apartment because by placing the centers upside down and the mains on stands I could get the L/C/R tweeters within 6” vertically. Plus the M80 stretched all the way up to the ceiling so it created it’s own vertical wall of sound.

Please note one thing about my present setup in the house. Based on all the experimenting I did the apartment I realized that as, if not more, important than which speakers I used up front was their placement in relationship to the room, screen, furniture and each other. I think Alan’s article on center speaker placement is correct about the importance placement plays on it’s sound especially in relation to the placement of the other speakers It’s working with.

I stayed in that apartment three months longer than I wanted looking for a room with a high enough screen wall to allow me to put all three M80s under the screen size I wanted. And who needs furniture in a living room? It’s just my big honking chairs in here so I have complete flexibility in speaker and seating placement. In turn this allows me to get the best imaging imaginable, something that I don’t doubt accentuates the advantage of using a vertical center. Once I get the curtains up I will start evaluating the use of room treatments as the final step in fine tuning everything. So remember I need make no compromises in either SQ or PQ for esthetics. Though IMO the minimalist look has it’s own esthetic quality.

Cheers,
Dean