Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Blue ray for music

I am in the process of upgrading my system. I have recently purchased the denon 3310 now Im looking to buy a Blueray player, I know they play music cd's but would it be better to have a seperate CD player.

Personally I'd rather have a separate CD player connected directly to the AVR (so it's not running through the TV monitor).

Larry, the playing of CDs has been a mature technology for a long time now, and any Blu-ray player that you get will also play CDs flawlessly. So, if you're wondering if a "dedicated" CD player would play them better, the answer is no.

Why would you run the BD player through the monitor first?

I’ve got my Oppo hooked up directly to my Onkyo using HDMI. I could use analogue if I wanted but don’t see that advantage. I’m not sure with all the other factors especially speaker and room related that there’d be any big advantage to a stand alone CD player.

I play CD's in my blu-ray and I don't use the TV.

The simplest answer is there would be no benefit to using a dedicated C.D player.

1) More components, more room, more money. This task can be done competently by your Blu-ray player.
2) If you use a digital connection such as a coax or optical(toslink) cable the digital to analog conversion will occur in the same place-your receiver. Even if you use a analog connection and take advantage of a so called "superior" DAC of a dedicated C.D player the differences in sound quality will not be night and day, certainly not worth the extra cost.

I have my Denon BD connected to my Denon 2809 via HDMI but I can only play cd's with the monitor "on". I've wondered about this, once I turn on the BD the monitor comes on with it(reads "DENON")...turn the monitor off, the BD turns off too. (?)

My Panny Bluray is connected to my Denon 3808 via HDMI, but I don't have to have my projector on to listen to music, never heard of that...

I’ve had my Oppo 981 and BD-83 hooked up through my Denon 2807 prior to getting my Onkyo and never had to turn on either my DLP or projector to play a CD or DVD. Both would start up automatically if the disk player and receiver were on.

What happens to the signal to your monitor when you switch to “Pure Direct?”

Does this happen when you use the power switch on each device? Is it possible your remote is turning both on and off at the same time and you just need to reprogram it?

I’ve heard of HDMI handshake issues with devices turned off but never something that’s turned on and off by another device via HDMI.

When I first hooked up my new tv, and I put a CD in the blu-ray player, my TV would automatically turn on. I went into the setup mode of the tv and Samsung had an option that was turned on, called Anynet+ (HDMI-CEC) and I turned it off. Now no problem.

I'm sure it's a handshake issue. In Pure Direct the monitor and BD do not work independently when the BD is "on"(same as before). In other words, once you turn on the BD player, the monitor will come on along with it a few seconds later...if you then turn off the monitor, the BD player will turn off. If the BD is left off, the monitor can be turned on and off without triggering the BD...It's only when the BD is turned on is there an issue. On a separate note...in "pure direct" I can turn the monitor off and still receive the TV signals.

I'll have a look at it during the daytime this week...I remember having problems with the various remotes(4) when I set up everything a while back and I've never liked the fact of having the monitor on just to listen to some CDs.

::cringing at the thought of delving into the Denon Manual again::

Thanks Cat, I'll try that tomorrow...I've got a Sammy too!!


I owe you a beer, Cat! just tried it we're good!!

Beercat??

Never knew that existed. I’ll have to look and see if my old DLP has that not that I’d ever use but now I’m curious

As Catbrat mentioned, I too am pretty sure it has to do with the HDMI CEC, it is a very handy feature but a bit of a pain for just playing Cd's.

What you could do is use the optical out or coax out from the BR/dvd player opposed to the HDMI and have the cd input linked to the proper digital source, this will bypass the HDMI-CEC and allow the respective compnents to be on and keep the TV off. Yes it is one more cable in the works but not a big deal for one more short cable and the signal quality wouldn't be any different from a cd on either the HDMI or the coax/optical out.

Just turn off the CEC. If you really want all of your components turning on and off at the same time get a remote which supports macros.

Although some devices have configurable CEC, like my TV and receiver, I can say that I want input switching, but not power on/off.

Which leads me to say that the optical/coax thing may not work, as powering on the player may cause the receiver to automatically switch to that HDMI input, which would then turn on the TV.

Any of you guys playing CDs through the PS3? Whenever a CD is played through our PS3 I have to go to the on screen menu to actually play a disc. Don't know, it could just be a programming/setup issue because I've never paid much attention due to the fact that if I usually play CDs via a DVD player it's usually done with the Oppo.

I use an Optical audio from my blu-ray and still had the same problem until I turned the CEC off.

You should disable HDMI CEC. This way, the devices can't talk to one another and power on/off by itself. That might be your problem.

Tks Han, Catbrat advised me to try that already and in fact, it was the problem.

I recently added a Sony BD360 to my system and it has been playing CD's just fine. One less component to place in the limited space I have. I am pleased with it's performance.

You're right, you have to go over to the CD under Music, and at least press the Start/Play button there. Not something easily done without a remote. Although, if autoplay is enabled (it is by default, but I turned it off long ago), it might start playing on CD insert. As much as I love my PS3, it isn't friendly without the display on.

Not surprising that the PS3 was what appears to be designed to have the TV/display turned on to run may of its functions, it is afterall designed as a gaming system first and foremost.

Not fair. I smoked for 30 years. Quit 10 years ago, and all I got was a bankruptcy.

CarBrat, is your post count stuck at 103???

I don't know, but this should make it 104.

Well it's reading 110!

Any reading over 105 could be life threatening.

When I had my Samsung BD-P3600 I would turn it to HDMI 3 (or whichever input I had it coming into the TV through) and start a CD, then switch the input in the TV to PC to work on my computer, and the Sammy would turn off. Was this becausse of the same issue mentioned above?

Good God, I must be a ghost or a zombie or something then!

Try turning off the Anynet CEC as mentioned, and see if it does anything for you.

Um... I must be Gozer or something. Except I've got the wrong equipment for that.

So that must make you the Key Master then?

I really, really don't want to be Rick Moranis.

You are right, I see you more as a Bill Murray.

Awesome. Although I suspect I'm more of a Harold Ramis.

I can see that. I bet a lot of us are. I say we make tomtuttle Bill Murray, and CV can be Rick Moranis.

I actually find that CDs sound noticeably worse through my PS3. At first I quite enjoyed the planetary visualization on the screen while playing music, but very quickly found familiar albums were lacking something. MP3s at 320 sound better than the disc they were ripped from. I stick with the Oppo.

Check under Settings > Music Settings > Output Frequency. Make sure it is set to 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz, and not 48 kHz (the default, I believe). The non-integer upsampling to 48 kHz, does indeed sound poor, but the 1x, 2x, or 4x upsampling sounds as good as any other player.

Good to know, and good to have you around, Chris.

48khz is DVD range correct?

48k is the typical material, but it supports a lot of stuff including 96k, but only in stereo (I have DVDas with additional 24/96 tracks for regular DVD players).

DVD and DAT used 48 kHz as their base rate, while CDs used 44.1. This setting on the PS3 is for CD playback only. I think Sony made it a choice, and defaulted to 48 kHz because for digital transfer to a receiver, they all support 48 kHz, and while most support 44.1, the upsampled rates of 88.2 and 176.4 are less supported. Handing a receiver an unsupported sample rate can do anything from produce silence to a speaker/ear destroying screech (if the volume is turned up). So 48 kHz is safe.

The HDMI interface is able to tell the PS3 which audio rates/formats are supported by the connected device. But when using the optical connection the user must check the right boxes. One thing, DTS-CDs don't work when upsampled. Going to the output settings and unchecking 88.2 and 176.4 while using the setting I mentioned before, will make DTS-CDs work correctly, and not really have any hindrance on any other discs. Well, it will affect SACDs, but since most PS3s out there don't even support SACD playback it's safe. Though if you do play SACDs, you need to choose between them and DTS-CDs (or change the setting each time).

ClubNeon, I see that you have an Elite 79avi. I have the same DVD player and I find it is really good at playing CD's with the Burr Brown DAC's.

I was wondering though what you see when playing a CD with the 79 to your 1018 (I have the Elite VSX-01 which is pretty much the same receiver). When I play CD's (through the 2 ch analog connection on the 79), the receiver display shows "96 kHz Stereo" which I think is odd because a CD, as mentioned, has a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz. 96 is clearly not the multiple I would expect for upsampling. I'm a little worried about the fact that it isn't a 1x or 2x upsample. The "Pure Audio" feature on the 79 doesn't seem to have an effect on the receiver display.

Any similar experience/insight? Thanks.

You're using the analog outs and it's showing a sampling rate? There's no sampling involved with analog it's a continuous wave form.

I don't have the stereo outs on the 79 hooked up, but the 5.1 connectors instead; they're connected to the 7.1 input on the 1018. When I use the Multi-Channel input, it doesn't show me a sampling rate at all.

If you're using a pair of stereo ins on your receiver, you're taking the digital audio on the CD, turning it to analog by the 79, then the 01 is turning back to digital (probably at 96 kHz as the display indicates), applying processing, and then converting back one more time to analog. If you use the multi-channel ins, you'll bypass the extra conversions, and processing.

Really though, I prefer the HDMI connection, then applying Dolby Prologic IIx to the stereo signal and creating a 7.1 upmix, and then making use of the MCAAC processing to attenuate standing wave peaks. That's over the pure, direct method. When I had my ancient Sony receiver the DACs in the 79 were definitely superior, and it only had old-school, 4-channel (left, right, center, surround) Prologic. Now I can't tell the difference between the 79 and the 1018.

I have both the 2 ch and 5.1 ch analog connected (probably redundant in most ways). I know that when you select Multi Ch, the receiver doesn't apply any processing. Similarly I found that when using the CD input (2 ch from the 79), in standard and Direct modes, the 96 kHz rate was displayed. In Pure Direct it does not. I guess the only way the 01 won't convert back to digital is in Multi Ch or Pure Direct Modes.

Thanks for the help.

That's funny you reply to this now. I just hooked my PSP up to my 1018 via stereo analog cables last night, saw the 96 kHz display, and thought of this post.

Glad I could help.