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#282228 - 12/12/09 09:38 PM M-60s have turned muddy
bilgirami Offline

Registered: 02/18/08
Posts: 40
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Guys, havent been on the forum for a while. Hope all Axiomites are doing well and getting ready for the holidays

The reason for this post is the at I have run into a bit of a situation. I purchased my M-60 VaSallo series about a year and a half or so ago. Loved the way they sounded. I used them for about 7-8 months and then ended up putting them back in the box (with the bag and packing and everything) as I was moving. We moved but the speakers stayed in the box for another 8-9 months as I started work on my basement in the new house. Finally the basement was ready and it was time for the Axioms to come out of the boxes again. During this time, I have also replaced my RX-V663 with an 863 (needed an extra HDMI). I hooked it all up this evening but was shocked to hear what the M-60s were sounding like. They are not half as clear and clean as they were 8 months ago. For a moment I thought the issue might be with my new receiver. I have a pair of bookshelf Paradigms. I took the M-60s out and hooked up the Paradigms. They sound as expected. No issues. The clarity and crispness I am used to getting from the M-60s is just not there. I am not sure what could have happened to my M-60s. Many folks would know that the RX-V863 has a 'pure direct' option too. That too did not help. If wiring was an issue, the paradigms should sound funny too. I have banana plugs at both ends, so when I take M-60s out and hook paradigms up, I am actually pulling the banana plugs from the back of my M-60s and sticking them into the bookshelves. Can anybody think of anything that could have happened. I have checked and all drivers are working..

Thanks folks.
M60s, QS8s, VP150 and paradigm Ultracube-12
Samsung BDP-3600, Nintendo Wii

#282230 - 12/12/09 09:52 PM Re: M-60s have turned muddy [Re: bilgirami]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13629
Loc: Iowa
Are the gold clips between the terminals on the back of the speaker securely in place and are all terminals tight. Is it both m60's, or just one?
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB SonyUBPX800

#282233 - 12/12/09 10:53 PM Re: M-60s have turned muddy [Re: SirQuack]
monx Offline

Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 3
I agree with siquack, check that the gold clips are secure. If they are, remove them and connect only to the top set of inputs, test, then try the lower set. If one set produces no output, there may be a bad connection inside.

On mine, the lower connection was broken inside. I didn't notice at first because audyssey configured the subwoofer compensate. But it didn't sound quite right and not very good with audyssey disabled/no eq. I thought it was odd that it set the the subwoofer crossover so high at 150Hz. I fixed the bad solder connection inside (suspect damage during shipping), audyssey set them to "full band" and subwoofer off. And now sounds amazing with audyssey on or off.

#282235 - 12/13/09 12:15 AM Re: M-60s have turned muddy [Re: bilgirami]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10644
Syed, although you say that you've checked and all speakers are working, I still question it. In the moving and storage process there were certainly chances for something to come loose, and your description of the sound would be consistent with one or more drivers not working. As was said, double check for the tightness of the connecting strips on the terminals. Connect the speaker wires to the top(mid and tweeter)terminals if they're now connected to the bottom ones. Does the problem affect both M60s equally? If none of the forgoing is helpful, can you open them up to check for a loose internal wire?

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.

#282238 - 12/13/09 12:32 AM Re: M-60s have turned muddy [Re: bilgirami]
chesseroo Offline

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 5220
Loc: western canada
 Originally Posted By: bilgirami
Can anybody think of anything that could have happened.

Umm, yah, you moved.
New room, new acoustics.
I highly doubt anything is wrong with your speakers as it seems you've checked for loose wires and such.
Assuming the Paradigms still sound the same in a different room while the M60s sound different could easily be a psychological perception.
Audio memory is incredibly short.

We moved to a new home from our old place. The Axioms sounded great on our main floor. The main floor we have now doesn't sound good for anything i've put there.
Lesson learned.
Rooms make up a huge percent of the audio difference.
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

#282245 - 12/13/09 02:14 AM Re: M-60s have turned muddy [Re: chesseroo]
davew Offline

Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 44
Loc: San Jose, CA
Sounds to me like the new placement of the speakers is affecting the sound quality. Don't forget that your M60s are ported front and rear so placement can make a big difference. How far away from walls and other furniture are they? Even giving the rear ports an extra 4 or 6 inches to breath may affect the quality of sound. Are they close to side walls or in a corner? Try moving them around a bit. I'm guessing your Paradigm bookshelves are not ported.


#282249 - 12/13/09 06:47 AM Re: M-60s have turned muddy [Re: davew]
SRoode Offline

Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 1366
Loc: Fishers, Indiana, USA
I saw that the receiver you had and now have has the "YPAO Automatic System Calibration" feature which appears similar to audyssey. I would try re-calibrating your system to your new room with it, and compare the settings to your old room (did you write them down?). This would give you an idea of how different the new room may be. The Paradigms, although similar to the M-60s, may be more forgiving.
M100x2, VP180HP, QS10HPx2, QS8x2, EP800x2, M3x4, M3x2 Rosewood, M5HPx2 Rosewood, AxiomAir, ADA1500-3

#282297 - 12/13/09 08:02 PM Re: M-60s have turned muddy [Re: SRoode]
bilgirami Offline

Registered: 02/18/08
Posts: 40
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Folks, thanks for the suggestions. Here is where I am at right now. I rechecked and all drivers are working. old clips are securel in place. The issue seems to be with both M60s. Did not get a chance to take a take the gold clips off but I will try to do that tomorrow. My front right is in a corner but it is about 6-8 inches away from the wall on the side and abtleast 8-10 inches from the back. I dont think the issue is with the woofer. If anything it is the midrange. Music is just not clear and crisp. The issue is just a little less obvious with movies but slight attention to detail tells me the speakers arent doing their bit. I will recalibrate them over the next couple of days but if that doesnt work, I may have to call Axiom to see what they think?
M60s, QS8s, VP150 and paradigm Ultracube-12
Samsung BDP-3600, Nintendo Wii

#282343 - 12/14/09 08:31 AM Re: M-60s have turned muddy [Re: bilgirami]
Murph Offline

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6955
Loc: PEI, Canada
You'll notice this if it's the case from the good advice above, but I too had this issue when I somehow accidentally turned on my Denon's EQ feature and it got set to "Flat". Sounded awful for a couple of days until I tracked it down.
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

#282357 - 12/14/09 11:57 AM Re: M-60s have turned muddy [Re: Murph]
Zimm Offline

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
It's is the room. It is not surprising. Try moving the speakers further away from side and back wall to increase the delay in the first order reflection. That helped the clarity in my setup when I moved to the HT.

Do you have any room treatments, or is this an empty in-progress room? An empty room will sound much different. Is the square footage the same as your old room? If there is much more air to move, you might have found the limits of the M60 or the AVR in your set up.

Does not sound like a speaker problem, just a room issue anyone that has moved will be familiar with.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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