Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Sound of Receivers

Good point, most of the claims aren't actually coming from the manufacturers, although they are stand to benefit the most.

So does it all come back to the consumers & reviewers hearing what they want or think they should hear? Have they simply been influenced by what they see and read?

I wish someone would do a proper test and help put this issue to rest, but I don't think the manufacturers and dealers would like it.

There is this (in)famous double-blind amplifier test, which shows a $6000 amp to sound same as a $200 amp: http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf

I came to this conclusion years ago after my first big Receiver purchase being a near top of the line Yamaha. After making that purchase, I bought a lesser priced amp for the living room. I couldn't tell any difference and at the levels we listen - there was no reason for the extra wattage. My latest purchase was ~$400 Yamaha that I picked up because it decodes the latest - DTS HD - etc.

I could tell a world of difference in sound between the only 2 receivers I've ever used. Both in 2 channel stereo mode.

1) Sony STR-DH500 $160
2) Pioneer VSX-21TXH. $630

Edit: The Sony just had a lot less power and couldn't drive the speakers nearly as good as the Pioneer can. After swapping receivers, I could hear a lot more bass coming from the M22's.

Conversely, I don't think I could really tell a difference between my ancient Toshiba silver face early 80s vintage receiver and my H/K AVR525, or my late 90s vintage stereo Marantz.

Nice read, thanks! That is the type of experiment I've been dying to perform. I would make it even easier on the participants though. Personally, I would not reveal the makes/models prior to or during the test, and I'd simply ask them a) if they could hear a difference and b) which one they preferred. Of course I would need to A/B the same unit against itself as well and see how the results compared to the A/B of different units.

Did you hear a difference at all listening levels or just high volume? Also, I wonder if the different (presumably better) DAC in the Pioneer is contributing as well...

I didn't have both at the same time, so I couldn't A/B, and went by memory. I remember when listening with the Sony that there was clarity of sound in the mid and upper range, but wasn't surprised with the lack of bass since these were M22's. Listened to them for about a week this way. After hooking up the Pioneer and listening to the same source material, I was amazed with the amount of bass coming out of these speakers. I played them both at various volume levels, and I know that volume wasn't a factor. As far as both at low volume, I don't remember the difference, so I'm referring mostly to the higher volumes.

I bought a Yamaha way back when (HDMI didn't exist, and TV's were only HD ready) and started my first home theater. 8 years later, the left surround channel went. So rather than buy a new receiver I bought a used amp - Anthem MCA 20 - for $250. It was $1500 when new the guy told me and I later verified. So this started me thinking I wanted to go with separates and I started acquiring more. Next one, an Anthem PVA7 for $450 which new was $2200. I liked the Anthem idea because the build quality was excellent and they were a Canadian company which made me feel good. I started looking for pre-pro's and to my shock nothing out there was a reasonable deal. A good pre-pro was the same as a top end receiver. So this made me start looking at cheap, but new, receivers to act as a pre-pro to the amp's. Vicious circle of this but not that and what about and don't forget cables and more power outlets and two more dedicated 20 amp circuits.

Finally, sold the MCA 20 for $750, sold the PVA7 for $1000 because audiogon.com guys love that stuff.

Bought a used RX-V3800 which has lots of power, HMDI, latest decoding, ABT 1010 chip for scaling all for the low low price of $350 because one HDMI port didn't work (does now).

Used the left over money (plus some) and got the M60's and a new EP350.

My point. At no time did the sound change for the better until I got the M60's. All the amplification before it had no impact. I'm stickin with receivers until the number of channels I need cannot be supported in a single chassis or a single power outlet.