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Re: Suggestions for New Axiom Speakers
michael_d #290289 02/03/10 09:25 PM
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I suspect you'd have to look at more than just one graph; you'd have to look at the on axis and off axis graphs, and I'm sure there's more to it than just frequency response graphs. Maybe not, though...


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Re: Suggestions for New Axiom Speakers
Ken.C #290291 02/03/10 09:30 PM
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I wonder if anechoic waterfall plots of pink noise bursts would be slightly more revealing about the character of a speaker rather than continuous tone plots.


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Re: Suggestions for New Axiom Speakers
grunt #290299 02/03/10 10:23 PM
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Dean, you make many valid points here. I think Axiom wants to put the best possible sound in as many people's hands as they can. The fact that they use the same tweeters across their entire line, and the same mids and woofers across most of their line is an example of this -- and contrasts with other manufacturer's multi-tiered approach.

There was no fanfare when they changed from their previous tweeter. Ian's philosophy, when he discovers an improvement to his current line, is "Why wait?" He doesn't save up a bunch of improvements for the next model year. They go in right away.

The one downside of this is that it leads to some confusion among people who follow Axiom closely -- Hi! \:\) -- like not being sure about the difference in the v2 designation and previous designations.

Re: Suggestions for New Axiom Speakers
tomtuttle #290300 02/03/10 10:23 PM
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 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
 Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
I'd like to see Axiom match or better at an Axiom price

Perhaps Ian and others would contend they are already doing this?


Exactly.

Last edited by pmbuko; 02/03/10 10:23 PM.
Re: Suggestions for New Axiom Speakers
grunt #290305 02/03/10 10:59 PM
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 Originally Posted By: grunt
I think a lot of people are getting miffed about nothing. 2x6 offered a suggestion which I interpreted to mean Axiom should consider producing more than one “line” of speakers (high, middle, low) like most other manufactures. And that with Axiom’s expertise in price/performance they could blow the “higher” end competition out of the water with better performance at a lower price. If my interpretation of his intent is correct I see nothing wrong with it on the surface as most other manufactures use a multi-tiered model quite successfully. However, IMO it’s a marketing gimmick based on “price discrimination.” While it’s an effective business model it tends to lock the buyer in.

I said “on the surface” because I feel that type of model would deviate from what I see as a unique Axiom philosophy of making “purpose built” speakers which are all designed to work together depending on ones needs. So rather than “tiered” speaker lines Axiom allows the selection of “tiered” systems based on such things as room size and listening habits. I remember reading one review a long time ago where the reviewer gave kudos to Axiom for recognizing the importance of the relationship between room size and speaker size and not just that bigger is always better. The ubiquitous nature of Axiom’s speakers offers me the user a great deal more flexibility in my speaker purchase and use than had I chosen to go with a manufacture who made speaker lines that were not necessarily sonically compatible with each other.

I don’t want to see Axiom develop a “high end speaker line” simply because it will just make them more like the rest of the competition.

On a side note another part of what I see as the “Axiom Philosophy” that I like is to start out buy building a great speaker and then just tweak it’s performance over time. I hate when companies keep running out “new speaker lines” as if speaker technology has just suddenly taken a great leap forward.

More generally this is what I see as “Axiom’s Philosophy” (some might say business model but since I feel they have a lot of passion for what they do I would say it goes beyond just a business model) One large interchangeable group of purpose built speakers offering more flexibility than any other maker. Sticking with tried and true designs and just tweaking them over time or introducing only new designs that perform a specific function (in/on wall, outdoor) extend and existing capability (EP800). Honesty in pricing (i.e. no huge “sales” and shipping included in the price). All these point to two things I don’t see to the same degree in any other speaker manufacture. Confidence in there product and respect for their customers (i.e. no attempt to lure people to buy the latest and greatest or jump on this weeks super deal).

Cheers,
Dean


This is an interesting perspective. I agree completely with you on these points. Well said sir!


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Re: Suggestions for New Axiom Speakers
ClubNeon #290308 02/03/10 11:04 PM
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 Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
I wonder if anechoic waterfall plots of pink noise bursts would be slightly more revealing about the character of a speaker rather than continuous tone plots.


Waterfall plot + on and off axis response graphs will pretty much tell you everything. But yes you are correct.


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Re: Suggestions for New Axiom Speakers
grunt #290314 02/04/10 12:42 AM
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Yup. That pretty much covers it Dean.

Interesting, I wasn't thinking in terms of Home Theater systems. I was thinking in terms of 2.x channel sets for music. But, now that you mention it, it seems to me that all Axiom would need is a new, matching, center channel speaker for the mid line and high line. Although I have no actual knowledge on the matter, judging from posts of many, over the years, Axiom may be thinking of a new center channel speaker anyway.

Unless Axiom has any intentions regarding another kind of surround speaker, the QS4 and QS8s should match the mid tier lineup and probably any higher level as well.

Cheers to you.

BTW, has Axiom replaced the 1" titanium tweeter they have been using? I may have slept through that one.

BTW2, the suggestion is based on the assumption that Axiom could make speakers which offer even greater sound quality, at a modest increase in cost, and even greater quality for an additional modest premium. The idea is not a marketing idea - but rather in the hope of even better Axiom speakers at good prices. These are speakers I'd like to buy, from Axiom.


 Originally Posted By: grunt
I think a lot of people are getting miffed about nothing. 2x6 offered a suggestion which I interpreted to mean Axiom should consider producing more than one “line” of speakers (high, middle, low) like most other manufactures. And that with Axiom’s expertise in price/performance they could blow the “higher” end competition out of the water with better performance at a lower price. If my interpretation of his intent is correct I see nothing wrong with it on the surface as most other manufactures use a multi-tiered model quite successfully. However, IMO it’s a marketing gimmick based on “price discrimination.” While it’s an effective business model it tends to lock the buyer in.

I said “on the surface” because I feel that type of model would deviate from what I see as a unique Axiom philosophy of making “purpose built” speakers which are all designed to work together depending on ones needs. So rather than “tiered” speaker lines Axiom allows the selection of “tiered” systems based on such things as room size and listening habits. I remember reading one review a long time ago where the reviewer gave kudos to Axiom for recognizing the importance of the relationship between room size and speaker size and not just that bigger is always better. The ubiquitous nature of Axiom’s speakers offers me the user a great deal more flexibility in my speaker purchase and use than had I chosen to go with a manufacture who made speaker lines that were not necessarily sonically compatible with each other.

I don’t want to see Axiom develop a “high end speaker line” simply because it will just make them more like the rest of the competition.

On a side note another part of what I see as the “Axiom Philosophy” that I like is to start out buy building a great speaker and then just tweak it’s performance over time. I hate when companies keep running out “new speaker lines” as if speaker technology has just suddenly taken a great leap forward.

More generally this is what I see as “Axiom’s Philosophy” (some might say business model but since I feel they have a lot of passion for what they do I would say it goes beyond just a business model) One large interchangeable group of purpose built speakers offering more flexibility than any other maker. Sticking with tried and true designs and just tweaking them over time or introducing only new designs that perform a specific function (in/on wall, outdoor) extend and existing capability (EP800). Honesty in pricing (i.e. no huge “sales” and shipping included in the price). All these point to two things I don’t see to the same degree in any other speaker manufacture. Confidence in there product and respect for their customers (i.e. no attempt to lure people to buy the latest and greatest or jump on this weeks super deal).

Cheers,
Dean


Last edited by 2x6spds; 02/04/10 12:52 AM.

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Re: Suggestions for New Axiom Speakers
2x6spds #290315 02/04/10 12:48 AM
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I think if you are talking about the tweeter thay was in the "ti" lineup many years ago, then yes. I'm pretty sure the V2 tweeter, and possibly what is being delivered today, has changed for the better. I don't hear people on AVS talking about Axioms being bright or harsh near as much as back in the day.


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Re: Suggestions for New Axiom Speakers
SirQuack #290316 02/04/10 12:55 AM
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I know that for some speakers (M1 and M2, some Meraks and Michauras) Axiom used to use a 3/4" titanium tweeter, which Joe V told me he considered "bullet proof," and which he liked very much.

My M2s appears to use the same 1" Titanium tweeter which my M3s used to use and which are in my M22s, but none of these are V2s.


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Re: Suggestions for New Axiom Speakers
2x6spds #290317 02/04/10 01:22 AM
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Here you go 2X6 regarding the M2ti

http://www.axiomaudio.com/m2i_interview.html


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