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#292140 - 02/13/10 05:48 PM Re: Denon with external amp [Re: grunt]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18044
Loc: NoVA
Oh, I figured as much.
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#292142 - 02/13/10 07:03 PM Re: Denon with external amp [Re: Ken.C]
michael_d Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 4220
Loc: Up yonder
Iím probably wrong, but I thought that when in direct or pure direct there was no EQ applied and it was just straight stereo??

Iím also quite curious just what SPL levels you are experiencing when you say it clips. I canít be in the same room with just the 3808 driving my M80ís. Way too loud. Well over 100 DB.

One other thing to be cautious about, is if you are actually hearing clipping, youíve already crossed over to a clipping state well before you hear it. Iíd stop doing that before you screw up your drivers.
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#292165 - 02/14/10 10:58 AM Re: Denon with external amp [Re: michael_d]
gmeyer Offline
buff

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Quincy, IL
I will test my XPA-2 and M80s in direct mode and see if I have any issues with heavy bass. The XPA-2's meters should help indicate when it is being driven too hard. I am also curious at what point the m80 woofers will start to bottom out. I don't see them producing really low frequency bass at very high levels without a sub to help. They do however produce a lot of punch with bass that is around 45-65 HZ (just guessing on frequency). With Rap music or any other low frequency bass I have to use my sub to get strong output.
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#292166 - 02/14/10 11:32 AM Re: Denon with external amp [Re: gmeyer]
gmeyer Offline
buff

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Quincy, IL
Ok I dont have a ton of bass heavy music, but I do have the Grammy nominees cds from 2009 and 2010. I tested with Apologize from one republic, I kissed a girl- Katy perry, from 2009 and poker face - Lady Gaga.

I used my Checkmate cm-140 spl meter C weighted and turned up these songs to 100db. which is about all I can take. The XPA-2s meters were peaking at 8 blue LEDs out of 12 I cant remember how may of the twelve are red? Maybe four. This is with the sub removed.

My findings are IMHO that the bass is not as strong as I would like it. The mids and highs sound more strained then they do with the sub/crossover turned on. The m80s are easier to listen to at these levels with the sub on. I am not hearing any glaring distortion they are just more harsh/a little strained sounding. At these levels the bass is starting to bottom. It sounds like I am reaching the limits of the woofers. I could drive them harder I think but I don't want to damage my equipment or ears.

For me these heavy bass songs sound way better with my sub. The highs and midrange are crisp and clear. And the bass output is much stronger as expected.

Not sure if this helps just my observations.
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#292167 - 02/14/10 11:40 AM Re: Denon with external amp [Re: gmeyer]
gmeyer Offline
buff

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Quincy, IL
OK I added the sub back crossed over at 60hz and at the same volume setting I am hitting 108db and the sound is easier to listen to than without the sub at 100db however my ears are telling me that this is all I can take in one sitting. My XPA-2 is cruising along at 4 LEDs lit.
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#292182 - 02/14/10 12:50 PM Re: Denon with external amp [Re: gmeyer]
grunt Offline
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Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana


I would return the XPA-2 and get something else. If itís distorting (staining) at 100dB while showing in the ďblueĒ there is something wrong with it IMO. As a test to be sure it could handle it I played some very intense GOA Trance (150+ BPM) on my Onkyo 3007 at 100dB 3 meters away for two hours w/o noticing any distortion or shutting down with no extra ventilation. If a 140w/ch receiver can handle the M80s w/o a problem so to should a 500w/ch @ 4ohm amp. For that matter a 75w/ch tube amp should be able to handle that with just a tiny bit to spare.

OTOH, if you canít listen at 100dB then it really shouldnít matter that the amp canít handle it.

Seems like Emo is having quality control issues with parts or something. I canít think of what else would explain some people having no problem at all with a particular amp driving the M80s while others have shutdowns or distortion at levels it should breeze right through. But Iím sure Emo will blame the speaker. ;\)
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#292183 - 02/14/10 12:57 PM Re: Denon with external amp [Re: grunt]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6790
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

I really doubt the M80s are bottoming out the drivers. You might be hearing the limit of the amp.
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#292186 - 02/14/10 01:17 PM Re: Denon with external amp [Re: Wid]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 4220
Loc: Up yonder
Irreversible hearing damage occurs at 140 peak DB (instantaneous) and 104 sustained DB (one hour). Be careful.


Edited by michael_d (02/14/10 01:17 PM)
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#292188 - 02/14/10 01:30 PM Re: Denon with external amp [Re: michael_d]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
I spent most of the time working outside in the yard hoping to stave off the neighbors from calling the cops if they didnít like it. When inside except for an occasional listening test I was wearing double hearing protection.
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#292189 - 02/14/10 01:56 PM Re: Denon with external amp [Re: grunt]
gmeyer Offline
buff

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Quincy, IL
Before I sold my Onkyo tx-nr1007 I hooked up my M80s to the receiver for the prospective buyer. We had just listened to it through the XPA-2 and I wanted to make sure the amps were OK as I had never used the internal amps. We both immediately noticed that they did not sound as good. I am not knocking the receiver it can drive the speakers no problem. For me the amp made a huge difference and I would not want to go back. It sounded cleaner with more impact, but if my amp did not sound good or shutdown I would return it.
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