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#294371 - 02/28/10 02:47 PM Scaling Question
RayLewis Offline

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 153
I'm officially obsessing about something, and so thought I'd get the opinions of folks here. As the subject shows, my question has to do with scaling. I've tried to read up on this, but haven't found a satisfactory answer (and I have a hunch there may not really be one).

Here is what I have: PS3 used for gaming and DVD, Denon AVR-2310, Pioneer Elite 101FD monitor, Motorola digital cable box, and a Wii. Everything but the Wii is connected to the receiver via HDMI (and from receiver to TV using HDMI). The Wii is connected to the receiver via component.

I keep fiddling around with what to do about the scaling. As I understand it, and I could be wrong, I have three different pieces of hardware that will upscale to 1080p: the PS3, the AVR, and the TV itself. The question I have, assuming it can be answered generally at all, is which am I best off using? I understood from prior help folks have provided that the Denon may be the best choice to do the scaling, but I didn't really ask the question directly so it wasn't really answered directly in a prior thread. So, I've played around with different options, but my opinion changes each time (and I'm not even sure, in the end, whether there really is a discernible difference to my eye).

So, again, assuming it can be answered generally, please let me know if you have an opinion on how to scale in the following scenarios:

(1) When I'm gaming or watching a DVD on the PS3, should I scale using the PS3, using the Denon, or just leave it to the TV.

(2) When watching the cable box, should I have the Denon scale or just leave it to the TV?

(3) When playing the Wii, use the Denon or the TV?

Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts.

#294379 - 02/28/10 03:17 PM Re: Scaling Question [Re: RayLewis]
michael_d Offline

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 4242
Loc: Up yonder
It depends…..

The only real way to determine which device does a better job is to simply try each. Depending on your TV’s chipset, that might be the best choice. Your display will end up scalling whatever you send it anyway, so if you can send it a clean, unmolested video stream, that data gets messed with less than having the Denon or the player do the work.

#294384 - 02/28/10 03:50 PM Re: Scaling Question [Re: michael_d]
RayLewis Offline

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 153
Thanks. I tried to figure out what the scalers are, but couldn't find the information. The only thing I was able to determine was as follows:

The Screen uses "New ASIC Video Processing and Scaling"
The Denon has, I believe, the Anchor Bay 2010 chip
PS3 seems to be a mystery on this front.

#294385 - 02/28/10 03:51 PM Re: Scaling Question [Re: michael_d]
Redo Offline

Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 45
Loc: Chicagoland
The best way is to test it out for yourself. I'd guess the PS3 will be the best at scaling for DVD's. I imagine the Denon does a better job than your TV too (TV's usually don't have the best video scalers)

#294495 - 03/01/10 01:20 AM Re: Scaling Question [Re: RayLewis]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10644
Ray, unfortunately, as the previous replies indicated, your question can't be answered generally and your "hunch" is correct. The three units you have which can do up-scaling have to be tried in the scenarios you mention to see if you can actually see a superiority in one of them. If not, relax and enjoy.

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.

#294523 - 03/01/10 03:03 AM Re: Scaling Question [Re: JohnK]
fredk Offline

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Thanks. I tried to figure out what the scalers are, but couldn't find the information.

Scalers are used to adjust the resolution of the program material to the resolution of the display.

So, a standard dvd is recorded to display 480 horizontal lines of resolution. Most of the new displays will output 1080 horizontal lines.

What a scaler does is convert the 480 lines in the program material into 1080 lines for the display.

If you are watching a bluray on the same display, no scaler is involved because the bluray is recorded at 1080 lines of resolution.

In practical terms, I don't think there is a lot of difference between scalers any more. The ps3 is supposed to have a good scaler and I don't see any real difference between it and the on board video on my computer.

Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

#294526 - 03/01/10 03:16 AM Re: Scaling Question [Re: RayLewis]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11741
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
 Originally Posted By: RayLewis
PS3 seems to be a mystery on this front.

The PS3 does its upscaling in software, and I'm pretty sure it improved with firmware updates. For a while my HD DVD player looked quite a bit better upscaling DVDs, but it was pretty much a wash as the software scaling in the PS3 advanced.

#294542 - 03/01/10 10:17 AM Re: Scaling Question [Re: CV]
RayLewis Offline

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 153
Thanks everyone. Since I've done some testing and didn't see much difference, I'll do what JohnK suggests--pick an option, sit back, relax, and enjoy it. It's so easy to start obsessing about this stuff, especially when I have enough time to hang around boards like these and read what audio and videophiles are talking about!

#294543 - 03/01/10 10:20 AM Re: Scaling Question [Re: CV]
ClubNeon Offline

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3466
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
The PS3's scaling is very good, it's de-interlacing before scaling film material is passable. The full-featured ABT 2010 chip has a featured called: PReP - Progressive ReProcessing, which can take less than ideal 480p video and break it down into the original interlaced lines to give it another shot. This is for players (like the PS3) which don't support 480i output.

I don't know if the Denon receivers have this feature enabled on the chip.

My Pioneer display does an amazing job de-interlacing 1080i film-based material (just got CSI Season 1 on BD), but it takes a couple seconds to lock on to the film cadence. It's scaling of 480 video to 1080 isn't as good as the PS3.
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs

#294663 - 03/01/10 07:08 PM Re: Scaling Question [Re: ClubNeon]
Potatohead Offline

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 670
Loc: Vancouver
FWIW I don't notice much difference either between letting my Denon 2310 deinterlace or letting my projector do it. I let the Denon do it anyway because that Anchor Bay chip is supposed to be the bees knees.

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