Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Center Channel Speaker Question

Well I'm slowly trying to get my 5.1 system together. All I need now is a center and surrounds.

I have definitely settled on the QS8's as surrounds.

I really wanted the VP150 just so everything matches. There are a lot of other centers out there that cost less than the VP150 and I am worried about the VP100 not doing the job with my M80's. I would only be using it for movies since I only do 2.1 for music.

My room is about 4000 cubic feet (extends into dining area).
My question would be does anyone here use a different center speaker other than axiom with the M80's? and that cost less than the VP150?

May be a dumb question as timbre matching to the M80's should be obvious, but is timbre matching really that critical? I guess I'm asking if there is a better value out there...with the same or close to the performance of the VP150.

Thanks in advance.

Dduval

Timbre matching is important across the L/C/R, so you should stick with an Axiom centre imo. I think you'd find the VP100 adequate and a good match with your M80s from what has been posted before, I have a VP150 for the record but hopefully some 100 owners can give their take on it.

You could also consider using one(or more) of Axiom's bookshelf speakers as a centre too, don't forget.

yep, it is best to stay with the same manufacturer across the front. The VP100 would probably work, or have you considered one of the bookshelf models standing vertically?

Money is Money, and believe me I don't have a lot/enough of it, but when it comes to decisions like yours, for the extra $200 versus staring at the speaker setup for 5 years wondering if I made the right choice, even if it sounds incredible...... personally I'm going for the extra $200, put off another purchase for a while, and take the indeciscion/wondering out of the equation so I can move on to the contentment part. Not to mention how far in you already are with the other speakers.

Yea, I hear ya guys.

I better go for the VP150, if I ever move into a bigger house, I'll probably regret the VP100 or something that doesn't match.

I always over analyze these decisions... The more I research the more confusion that sets in.

Thanks,

Dduval

You might even hold off for a bit, rumour has it(more than a rumour I think) that Axiom is testing a horizontal M80 centre as well...obviously will cost more than either of the VP's, if and when it comes out. Just thought I'd add that to your confusion, lol.

LOL...I can't wait to research it...

Dduval

IMO how far you plan on sitting from your front speakers and how far apart (angle) they are have more impact on center speaker choice than just room size. The other factor is program material which you’ve already said will be mostly movies.

I’ve found that vertical speakers sound better for music (better imaging). Horizontal speakers often sound better for movies (better blending of the center with the mains) especially the closer I sit and the wider apart them mains are.

I’ve don’t a lot of fiddling with center speakers and found that for me the best match for the M80s in all respects is the M22 and it’s a fraction of the cost of the VP150 and even less than the VP100. So even if as it looks you are a better candidate for a VP speaker don’t discount the M22. If you’re curious and have the time to experiment it only costs about $15 to ship back an M22 and $20 to ship back a VP100/150 so it might be worth trying both especially if you sit fairly far back relative to the width of your mains.

Cheers,
Dean

Thanks Dean,

That's interesting for sure. I just checked and I sit 11 feet from the M80's and 10 feet from the center. The way my avr/TV stand is the center sticks out some, should I bring the M80's "even" with the center? or does 1 foot matter?

$212.00 for the one M22 to have a good center would be great...

Dduval

At that distance I don’t think one foot is going to matter as long as the distances are set in the processor. My L/R mains are 12’ and my center is 11.5’ from the center of my seating but they are all 11.5 away measured straight out from the row of seats.

Traditionally the front 3 speakers are suppose to form an arc all being the same distance from the listening position but I find with HT that’s problematic since the listening position is so wide. For me pulling the mains out to form an arc with the primary listening position makes each one stand out to much for the nearest seat. IMO the arc thing only works well if the placement of your mains is much wider than the seating. By all means tweak your positioning because you never know how thing will sound for your room/preferences.

At that distance I think you’re a great candidate for a M22 center. I only listen to stereo tracks in 2ch but for 5.1 audio (I know there’s not as much out that as I’d like) it’s my opinion that the M22 center is far superior to the VP150 (haven’t heard the VP100). IMO vertical centers are always superior to horizontal one for music.

BTW if you have the capability don’t cheat yourself on multi-channel music especially if you can play DTS or lossless audio tracks. I was just doing some tweaking of my mains and am constantly blown away at how much better my audio DVDs with 5.1 DTS tracks sound compared to 5.1 Dolby and 2.0 Dolby or PCM. Lets not even talk about how the lossless tracks that came on the demo disk with my Oppo BDP-83 sound.

My advice is that you order both M22 and VP150 and demo them both keeping the one you think works best. You’d only have to eat $15-$20 return shipping depending on which one you send back. Though you might not want to sent the M22 back even if it doesn’t suit you as a center. When I ordered a pair they were to compete with QS8s for the rear position in my apartment. The QS8s won due to the proximity to the seating. However, the M22s sounded so good I couldn’t send them back. Since then I’ve even used them as my mains in a smaller room and fell price for performance they are Axiom’s best speaker. They do however, need a subwoofer for the bottom end IMO.

Cheers,
Dean

Your head must be buzzin with possiblilities and options ......your like me , wait what if I make the wrong choice, spend more, but now the vertical versus horz, your screwed!

Ya just gotta put a stake in the ground at some point. For me, it was the sub. Drove myself crazy for a few weeks until I just decided to heck with it and got the EP350.

I agree with Dean, for $15 or $20 it is well worth it to listen to both and send the 'loser' packing.

I was thinking why not use 2 - M3s for a center. Would it work and how would it sound. I know hook them up in parallel, but you would have the bigger 6 1/2 drivers and 2 tweets. Wouldnt it sound as good as a VP150 or maybe better. I was thinking lay them down and together, but would you want the tweets in or to the outside like the VP150?

General consensus from those who have tried it says that Axiom's bookshelves, at least, sound better vertical than horizontal.

Ain't nothin' wrong with the 5.25" drivers.

I haven’t heard the M3 but so far the best sounding center for the M80s besides another M80 is the M22 IMO. The M3 by design is not going to timbre match with the M80s. Doesn’t mean you wouldn’t like it as a center but the odds are stacked against you.


I agree that laying them down didn’t really work for me. Screws up the imaging worse that a standard horizontal center. OTOH it did create a “wall-of-sound” effect that was sort of cool for movies. I think JC from Axiom has a couple M22s set up this way and really liked it. Maybe you should email or PM him to get his opinion of doing it.

So JC works for Axiom. Isnt a VP150 just kinda like an M22 on its side with an extra driver and tweet. Sorry to sound like a dummy but how is say 2 M2s better timber matched than 2 M3s. I was just thinking since I have 2 M3s for rears and used 2 M3s for a center, Id have the all around M3 effect.

Not really the VP150 and M22 are very different designs. If you look at the specs you’ll see the M22 has a ported enclosure while the VP150 doesn’t, they have different crossover points and the M22 extends lower than the VP150. However, the biggest difference it the orientation they are designed for. Being designed to lay on it’s side the VP150 will likely have a better frequency response laying down than the M22s or M3s would. Again for movies this may not make a big difference but IMO for music it does. The best use of 2 center speakers I’ve seen is putting one over and one under the screen to center the dialogue on the screen. Fred does it with 2 M2s and has said it works great with his M80s.

I have no way of positioning an M22 vertically. So I have to lay it down horizontally, will that still be as good or better than a VP150?

I know I should order both, but was curious to your thoughts...

Dduval

No, that will probably be worse than a VP150.

It’s my experience from comparing them against each other that the only real benefit in having two M22s laying on their compared to one VP150 is the dual M22s give a wider center soundstage and by moving them around give you some control of how wide to make it. IMO this effect can be cool for movies but sucks for music which might not be an issue for you unless you start doing multi-channel music. But like Ken says one VP150 will still probably work better.

I assumed that JC still works for Axiom, I haven’t heard otherwise. I would send him a message and ask his opinion of the dual M22s laying down. I think they are still less expensive than one VP150 and if you move to a bigger room and decide to upgrade to an M80 center dual M22s make very nice “wide” speakers for the M80s.

Hey Guys I talked with JC and he said it would be ok to use M2s laying down for a center. He said the M2s would be better tonally than the M3s. The other thing he said and I had already thought of this, because both sides taper in, you have to use some sort of wedges to get the speakers firing at you. He suggested rubber doorstop thingys.
I just had another thought what about 2 VP100 or 2 VP150 end to end, it would look cool anyways.

Besides doorstops, I've read that some Canadians have used hockey pucks. You can also buy acoustic isolation pads that are tapered. I have not tried any of these solutions so I don't know how well any of them work.

-Dave

Hey, years ago I used to use a stack of cheap mouse pads under a pair bookshelf speakers because they sounded better with the padding. Never gave much thought as to why though. I wonder if it's the same principle?

Update:

Well, after much thought with my budget and my actual listening needs, I decided to get the VP100.

Hook it up yesterday and ran it through the paces and I must say I'm lovin it! Voices and dialog are much cleaner and forward. I don't have to strain to hear what they are saying at all. I haven't even ran calibration yet, so it's a big difference for me.

Of course, this is compared to my 8 year old $100.00 yamaha center speaker. I certainly have no regrets. If, when I move into a bigger house, I'll probably just order another VP100.

The cool thing is now I'll have enough cash to order the QS8's. With so many of you praising the QS8's, I'm pretty excited to get them...my current surround speakers suck!

Dduval

Good choice. I'm sure the QS8 will give you a similar boost in performance.

I don't think there's any advantage nor disadvantage to doing this; I think it's simply because they have so many lying around.

Also, when your bored, you can practice knocking beer cans off your buddy's head.

Well, to respond to my own quote.

I recently just got a VP150 thru a very kind member here (used). I couldn't resist the offer. Freaking glad I did, I thought the VP100 was good, the VP150 is way better.

Definitely more punch in dialog, no excessive highs, good spectrum all the way. Made a big difference in multi channel music as well.