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Re: ERD-1's Versus QS8's
Dduval #299144 03/29/10 02:36 AM
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Well Dana (I'm sorry I called you Dave earlier), this hobby is nothing if not all about personal opinions. Please don't feel you need to appologize for having differing opinions that some others may have.

As for the bad restaurant experience, I do understand where you're coming from there too. I suppose if I hadn't had 5 other Axiom speakers that worked flawlessly to keep my faith alive in Axiom as a company, then the troubles I had with the EP800 may very well have turned me against them as well.

Glad you found something that blew you away... In both cases.


My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD
Re: ERD-1's Versus QS8's
JohnK #299145 03/29/10 02:39 AM
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 Originally Posted By: JohnK
Dana, it may be that the the ERDs are in fact "in an entirely different class" from the QSs. They appear to be a fairly routine dipolar design, while the QSs use upward and downward in-phase firing mid-woofers(possibly inspired by Allison designs of the 1970s)which uniquely combine very wide dispersion with an element of directness to suit various source materials well.


Yea John,

One strange thing about them too is they have switches in the back to go from Bi to Di polar and vice versa. I was reading the Emo and avs forums and the thing is, some do not like the switches are on the back. The bracket is for wall-mounting and then the switches are covered up. So it's a pain when experimenting with them, you have to remove them from the bracket to get to the switches...




Looks like a swivel type wall/ceiling bracket would be best...


M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740
Re: ERD-1's Versus QS8's
Micah #299146 03/29/10 02:41 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Micah
Well Dana (I'm sorry I called you Dave earlier),


Dana, Dave, Dan, Don, Damon...I answer to all... \:\) WHWHAHA!


M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740
Re: ERD-1's Versus QS8's
Dduval #299151 03/29/10 03:30 AM
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Yeah, I kind of get the feeling that all of us Axiomites are kind of going a little knee jerk here. Maybe the ERD-1s are better than the QS8s. I find it hard to believe, but I've never heard them.

This post pains me a great deal.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: ERD-1's Versus QS8's
Micah #299157 03/29/10 04:00 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Micah
So what exactly is the knock on Emotiva then, their customer service? I'm just curious, as I haven't seen much complaining about them besides the incompatability between some of their amps and the M80's. Dave you say you had two failed amps, did they give you the run-around when they went bad?

I'm only asking because if the amp failures are a deal breaker for you then you may also want to steer clear of Axiom subs as I've read dozens of complaints about Axiom subwoofer amp failures in the 16 months I've been on this forum, and experienced 3 of them myself.

However no matter what problems I experienced with my equipment, Axiom was always quick to rectify the situation. Failures are just part of the wonderful world of electronics unfortunately. How the company you're dealing with handles the situation determines how frusterating the whole ordeal will be.


For the most part there is a ton of happy Emotiva customers - no denying that. They do make nice products but there is still reasons why I wouldn't purchase from them.

1) Quality Issues - As I mentioned in a previous thread, internet companies do not have a great history with electronics. I have read one to many issues with their products. Their products are well received but they also come with a lot of overblown hype IMO.

2) Stringing customers along with release dates/pre-orders - The UMC-1 was the latest example.

3) How a company reacts during adversity (probably the most important for me) - I don't find they handle public issues very well or in some cases not promptly enough - UMC-1 as the latest example. Deceptive in their handling of issues and customer complaints IMO (censorship).

4) Controversy over cutting corners on testing of their electronics to meeting government regulations. Why I could see a company doing this is to try to gain competitive advantage. Especially when dealing with the low price points they are trying to hit. Again if something like this is true, that is bad/deceptive business practices and hurts the competitive ability of companies playing by the rules.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1148961

I have not been able to get through the whole thread, but I have not read a response from the company to refute those claims.







I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne
Re: ERD-1's Versus QS8's
Ken.C #299160 03/29/10 04:31 AM
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 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Yeah, I kind of get the feeling that all of us Axiomites are kind of going a little knee jerk here. Maybe the ERD-1s are better than the QS8s. I find it hard to believe, but I've never heard them.

This post pains me a great deal.


Were is the knee jerk? I’ve been the most vocal critic of Emo in this thread but even I said:

 Originally Posted By: grunt

My gut instinct tells me that for most people the extra cost of the QS8s wouldn’t be justified especially if you could get the ERD-1s on sale, but w/o a direct comparison that’s just supposition.


Nor has anyone take Dana to task for preferring the PL-200 to the EP350.

My issue with this is based on reading Emo fanboys citing that original Audioholics review for two years w/o any other corroboration. This particular line from the review has been quoted by Emo fanboys for a couple years now:

 Quote:

While I've always found the Axioms to be a fine surround speaker, the ERDs are in an entirely different class.


Even the excellent review linked by Dana doesn’t seem to rave about the ERD-1s the same way. Like I said in a previous post if they are really that good then why after this long aren’t all the review sites raving about them?

Note I almost bought a set of the original Emo speakers based on that review but decided it would be prudent to wait and see what others had to say and for the longest time there was only silence. I even recommended them on several forums based on that review but as time when on and no one else was reviewing them I pulled back from doing that. Since then the best thing’s said about them seem to indicate that they are a good value and nothing more.

Maybe I’m projecting from one of the various dust ups I’ve had with Emo fanboys over this issue, but I can say that in each instance they couldn’t back up the hyperbole they were posting about the ERD-1s.

I’m inclined to agree with what case01 seems to be saying that with surround speakers you reach a point of diminishing returns quickly, and for the original sale price which was usually under $300/pair I imagine it would be hard to justify the QS8s or anything else for that matter.


3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
Re: ERD-1's Versus QS8's
grunt #299170 03/29/10 11:02 AM
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Even though many people suggested years ago that I get an axiom sub, I couldn't justify the price especially when the performance is compared. I think this is generally true for most of axiom's "lower" end subs. I have a friend though who has a system that I think would benefit from an EP125v2. But that is a very special situation. I do however think that their EP800 is an excellent sub from everything I've read about it. Honestly though, the EP800 is far out of my price range.


M22 VP100 QS8 RX-V665 DMP-BD55 SMS-1 LFM-1+ LG47SL90

Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
Re: ERD-1's Versus QS8's
prototype3a #299172 03/29/10 12:17 PM
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 Originally Posted By: prototype3a
Even though many people suggested years ago that I get an axiom sub, I couldn't justify the price especially when the performance is compared. I think this is generally true for most of axiom's "lower" end subs. I have a friend though who has a system that I think would benefit from an EP125v2. But that is a very special situation. I do however think that their EP800 is an excellent sub from everything I've read about it. Honestly though, the EP800 is far out of my price range.


You should have your friend check out the PL-200, it's less money and a way better sub. It's also designed with the help of the HSU research team. The plate amp is identical to the HSU STF-2, only more wattage...


M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740
Re: ERD-1's Versus QS8's
Dduval #299184 03/29/10 02:47 PM
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The problems are that she needs high level inputs, a fairly high crossover (120hz?) and small form factor. I was looking at their site earlier. I'll have to look a bit more but I looked into many lines and the EP125v2 is the best fit so far.


M22 VP100 QS8 RX-V665 DMP-BD55 SMS-1 LFM-1+ LG47SL90

Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
Re: ERD-1's Versus QS8's
Dduval #299188 03/29/10 03:09 PM
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Its important to remember the fact that its hard enough to create one speaker design that the masses will love and buy enough of them to keep a company in business. It's only that much harder to create unique and competetively performing speakers to fullfill every need in a home theater environment. Every company has its strengths and weaknesses. If I had to pick out Axioms strenths based on feedback from this forum I would have to say people are most pleased with the M80's, M22's & QS8's performance. Also based on feedback from this forum I would say their weakness is with their center channel offerings, and to a lesser degree, their subwoofer department.

I say lesser degree because their subs are truely polarising... most seem very happy with them, and can't believe the amount of bass they put out and usually turn them down quite a bit. But then there are those who are completely underwhelmed by their performance. But IMO (and I could be completely off base here), I tend to think that a large majority of those unsatisfied customers come from a pool of individuals who grew up in the car audio scene. People used to being able to fill a car easily with extreme amounts of SPL intense bass, hard hitting midbass, and just that whole body encompasing, heart pounding lower octave sound wave nirvana. When that's what you're used to, its hard to get that experience in a living room environment period, let alone get it with a company that designs their subwoofers to deliver clean, accurate bass notes, not hyper-extreme, FAT midbass, over the top stuff that drowns most everything else out. It's very hard to go from one end of that spectrum to the other without being somewhat let down by the results. And again I'm not saying this accounts for everyone who's ever been less than satisfied with an Axiom subwoofer. But my guess is that a large portion of them are. I know that was one of the things that I had to get past when building my HT, because I was one of those guys who drank car audio as his life's blood all through my teens & twentys.

That's why I'm of the opinion that while I love all of my Axiom speakers, I don't get too upset when someone comes on here stating a preference to somebody else's product in a certain area. "Yeah my M60's kick ass, but the VP100 sounds really flat"... personally I'm just happy the guy likes his M60's. It would be great if everyone were thrilled with all of Axiom products, but thats just never going to happen.

I think over all, Axiom has done very well for itself in this market,all things considered.

Last edited by Micah; 03/29/10 03:15 PM.

My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD
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