Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater ERD-1's Versus QS8's

QC issues for the Axiom subs' amps notwithstanding, I've always figured that when there's a pretty big disparity in results of a particular sub model, it's likely coming down to placement.

Not to sound condescending, but many who have the money for HT equipment, but don't yet have (or don't care to have) the knowledge about the equipment and acoustical issues, are just likely to plop a sub wherever their wife says is OK and then write a review about mediocre performance.... never understanding that the location within and the dimensions of their room is extremely important to the end result.

That sentence is too long, but it says what I want!

Indeed you are on to something. Let me stress the fact that I'm drawing my conclusions from public opinion, not scientific data that shows Axiom has poor center channel speakers and subwoofers. These are the area's I've seen people complain about the most.

The unfortunate thing about it all is this, public opinion is all that matters when it comes to sales. Because a company flat out can't sell the public something they won't buy no matter how fantastic it is. And clearly the public is often uninformed, and makes the wrong choice. Great companies, with amazing products have gone under while other companies with lesser products have flourished for no other reason than consumer ignorance.

That's the way the ball bounces, and I can only imagine how frusterating it must be for a company with a great product that isn't selling to pull their hair out screaming, "LOOK YOU FOOLS, THIS THING IS THE SHIT"!!!!

And just like the old saying goes, "it don't matter how fool proof you make something, someone else will just go out and make a better fool".

Mark & Micah,

I hear ya guys, but again, to stay on topic. No one (at least not me)is saying that there is a "performance" issue with Axioms center, surrounds or the subs. What I am wanting to debate and talk about is "for the money spent" for the performance. With Axiom, the more you spend, the more performance you get, like anything I guess.

The issue is "that maybe" you can get the same, and better performance for less money. And I'm not talking about Bass heads, car audio freaks, or wife whipped about placement issues.

This is what has been fascinating me, other products. This is an extremely competitive market. It has to be brutal to stay on top for any audio company.

For me, the M80's are unreal for the money, what a value! Even my VP100 is a dramatic improvement for $255.00 If money was no issue, I certainly would get 4 QS8's and 2 EP500's. I just can't justify spending that much $$$ right now, and maybe, just maybe...there are other products out there that perform the same or better for whole lot less $$$.

This is a good debate, love it. I find it fascinating to research and try different audio stuff, it's fun and it's a learning experience!

Respectfully,

Dana

That was my point Dana about my sub purchase. The price/performance was more favorable on other brands of subs when looking at Axiom's lower end models. That's why I chose the one I did and I am very happy with my choice. I always tell people that when I'm looking at audio equipment, that I look for something that has a high "bang for the buck". In other words, something that sounds absolutely amazing when you consider the price of the product(s).

Exactly, well said...

Dana

Oh well certainly there are so many audio companies out there in this market today that anyone looking for the best 'bang for the buck' could literally spend years and years ordering, comparing, and finding what they feel is the absolute best value out there. The problem is, that conclusion is 100% subjective. Once YOU have gone crazy spending many years of your life researching all the different options, spending all your money for return shipping and all the rest of it until you've finally pieced together the best system you could ever possibly hope to find for the money spent... you can't come back here in 2025 and say, "ok guys I finally did it, everyone here needs to go out and buy XXX, I guarantee you won't find anything better for the price". You just can't do it, because ultimately while you might get lucky enough to find some that might agree with you, others will completely disagree with you.

So this is why the vast majority of people just go with something that fits their needs as close as they can find, without going through all of the drama involved with comparing every single choice available out there. That would simply be more trouble than it's worth for most audio consumers.

I feel Axiom makes a great product at a very competetive price over all. Have you ever priced Paradigm's top of the line surround speakers? They make the QS8's look like an absolute steal, I don't care how good they sound. And yet Paradigm sells them, proving that there are those who feel they're worth the money spent. And who am I to argue with them? I can't do that anymore than someone who has a pair of the ERD-1's can argue with me about my decision to purchase the QS8's. So to answer the question are there any surround speakers out there that I might discover sound as good or better than my Axioms for a lower price if I were to compare them? I'm quite sure of it... if I looked hard/long enough. But I'm not worried about it because for the money I spent, I'm more than happy with the performance I got. They are worth the money to me, which is 100% a personal opinion. Ditto with my EP800, I feel the performance I get out of it makes it worth the price tag. But I will admit that 5 years ago, I would never have dreamed I'd ever spend $2000+ dollars on a subwoofer, NEVER! It just so happened that I had the money to spend. The EP800 happened to be in the right place at the right time, and so the stars aligned and I got it. Are there subs out there that could do this for me at a lower price? I am absolutely positive there are. But for me the whole ordeal of purchasing all of the options I have to choose from, comparing them all to the one I currently have, then comparing them to the other one's I like and so on and so forth... the whole thing just becomes too tedious to be worth it to me. Call me lazy I suppose. On the other hand if I could quit my job and compare subwoofers for a living, then I'd be all for it! Hell if my living was to compare different brands of speakers all day long, I can pretty much state with much certainty that my personal HT would be comprised with a different manufacturer in every catagory. In other words my mains would be X brand, my center a different brand, my subwoofer yet another different brand, and for all I know my side surrounds might even be different from my rear surround speakers. I say this because I honestly don't believe any one company could possibly be the best at more than one thing. There is just too much competition to accomplish that towering feat.

But don't let me talk you out of anything here friend, if you want to purchase a few competitive brands to compare your QS8's to then knock yourself out, I'm not mad at ya at all. I'd be more than happy to hear your evaluations. If you find that Emotiva makes a better surround speaker for the money in your set-up, then I for one will be happy for you. Just don't expect it to become a universal opinion, because nothing in this hobby is universal.

Micah, to expect that would be ridiculas. We're just debating bang for buck, nothing more. The best bang for buck is as different for you, as it is for me and everyone else.

And believe me, you don't have do alot of work to find best bang for the buck, it's already on the net for the most part. And Axiom is well know for value and performance. So are alot of other companies.

When you bought your Emotiva amp, did you research it? Do you think it's the best bang for buck? If you can yes to both, then job well done! I think we all do that.

Now, go hug your EP800 and chill out...just kidding Micah! Take care...

Excellent post Mark!

Dana. When you compared the two subs, did you do so from the same location? As Mark pointed out, positioning will have a huge effect on a subs performance.

The kick-drum punch you get has nothing to do with how low the sub plays. As Mark pointed out, thats the mid bass. Jay did what I think is the most thorough review here of various subs and dug into the 'why' of what he heard more than any place outside of the DIY sub-geek crowd.

A lot of time, that punch that some like so much comes from a mid bass hump. Its much like the 100Hz hump that gives the impression that the M3 puts out more bass than the M22 even though its the other way around.

After all that, if you find more value in the BIC sub, then its the right one for you.

Going back to the original quote with the review of the ERD's, something in that review has always bugged me...

"I recalibrated the system fully using the Velodyne SMS-1 Subwoofer Parametric EQ System. Generally I wouldn't do that except that I had moved the furniture and some of the absorptive panels around a bit and felt it might have changed the room acoustics. When I was done, I ended up with a flatter response than I had ever experienced before"

So he moved some furniture and panels which as we all know will change the room acoustics and then gushes that the ERDs are better in every way than the QS8. I always felt he needed to recheck the system with the QS8s in place of the ERD's to justify that statement.

Yes, that's the very first thing I did. After what I went thru when I first got my EP350, placement is critical.

Fred, keep in mind what really got me was the PL-200 played the 20hz test tone and the EP350 did not, in the same location! Of course the specs (for what's worth) reflects better low end than the EP350 anyway. The other thing is the BIC volume is at 10:00 o'clock and the EP350 has to be at 2:00 o'clock to keep up, so both are calibrated to 76db.

Like I said, for $290.00 the PL-200 is an incredible value "for me" (not trying to convince anyone). Now with both subs the EP350 and the PL-200, music and movies are freakin awesome. I've got even distribution of the lows in my room now.

Dana