Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Emo brings subs to market. Yawn.

Another great post grunt. Spot on..spot on.

PS: I think you are referring to the EP500 and not the EP350.

Ok so just to clarify Grunt, you don't like the fact that they rely on slow Chinese suppliers? I'm not all that up on AV123's problems, only that people were having problems receiving what they ordered from them. If that is also a problem with Emotiva, then I was unaware. I guess all I can speak of is my own experence with them. Which went smooth as silk, no problems what-so-ever. If others have had problems getting their own products, then I can understand the concern.

As far as over-hyped reviews go, its a shame that a brand must pay the penalty for someone else making inflated claims about them, and getting a bad reputation because of it. I would feel it unfair as well if Axioms were slammed because of another site giving them more praise than they might deserve. I think Axiom tried to deliver an incredibly competitive product for a great price, and I don't feel they claim to do anything more than that. On the same note, I don't see Emotiva making superlative claims on their own website, only that they're trying their best to bring you a quality product at a very reasonable price point. So if other reviewers are falsely blowing them up and that's turning the masses off, then I feel that's a shame.

They are a small company, so growing pains are imminent. I guess I personally support them because I appreciate their efforts to save me money. I don't see a whole lot of companies out there doing this sort of thing. When I saw the price tag on Axioms M80's I had my doubts on how good they could actually be. But as it turns out I feel Axiom could easily charge twice as much as they do and still not be over priced. I like to reward companies such as these.

So even though Emotive might not have a spotless record, I'm still greatful for what they are attemptng to do for us.

No that isn‘t the issue. Doesn't matter to me who's making the components. What I'm talking about is more broadly how they operate.

There are several things Emotiva does that are "red flags" for me. Steep markdowns on continuing products. Hyping products in development. Constantly introducing new products that often replace previous one (specifically talking about speakers). Expanding their business very quickly. IMO these are all signs of an immature company that's riding close to the edge. If they sold something that I wasn't worried about warranty service on then these might not be issues but electronics products are for me.

Another issue that bothers me about them is heavily moderating their forum both directly and through fanboyism. Needing to control what's being said about them on the internet says either something about the owners, that the business relies to heavily on internet hype, or both. A company that lives by internet hype dies in its absence. I understand that most ID companies, even Axiom, have probably been internet darlings at some point. However, I have more faith in that company if it's core business has a solid foundation beyond internet forums.

When speaker shopping the first company I dropped from consideration was AV123 for the reasons stated above about Emotiva plus a couple others. I was also worried about Axiom in general but if you notice Axiom does not send up any of the red flags that I mentioned above which allayed much of my fears. There were also people pointing out Axiom's warts in other forums and here who weren't being attacked by packs of fanboys so I felt I was getting a more realistic picture of the company.

Emotiva doesn't need to make hyperbolic claims on their own website since they've had fanboys spamming internet forms with hyperbole for some time, though it's died down recently with the problems they've been having and the rising number of complaints that are no longer getting shouted down.

I'm glad Emotiva is in business. New blood leads to innovation. Competition helps the whole market. However, it's my preference to go with a company with a proven track record. If that costs me a little extra money I don't mind. I am quite pleased that you and others are willing to support new companies like Emo, and those who are early adaptors because if it all works out it drives prices down and bring new products into the mainstream. Just not my cup of tea. So I have nothing personal about Emo or AV123, I just like to act as a reality check to make sure people who haven’t looked into them know the whole picture. I’m not bagging on you or any other owner of either of those companies products any more than I would bag on a Bose owner. Everyone has different needs, wants, prices, risk threshold, etc. . . .



This is exactly the type of statement that disturbs me about a company. Companies that foster the idea that they are something more than a business, Emotiva and AV123 come to mind, worry me because they are just businesses and are not doing anything for you. They're in business to make money and if the byproduct of that benefits you then everyone benefits.

Cheers,
Dean

Thanks, and good catch on the sub. I had the EP350 on the brain because of another post I had just made.

I don’t lurk there as much as I use to but I’d say if anything the fallout for him was good. His site became a home away from home for many AV123 members while the AV123 forum was down so I’d say his forum membership went up and so to the exposure of his brand. Though the real expert on that would be Ajax.

Although I don’t care for his online persona, the main reason I’ve never considered joining his forum. However, I get the impression he is a much more savvy and disciplined businessman than anyone at AV123 ever was and as such has a much better chance of acquitting himself better in his audio endeavors.

Dean, your posts continue to amaze and enlighten me. Your thoughtful and articulate contributions are one of the primary reasons why I continue to show up here every day.

Bravo and thank you.

Yes, to the Emo owners, I sicked Snicker Dog in after the review writer, not after Emotiva.

Ok I can appreciate all of your points. If experimenting with a new company isn't your cup of tea the it isn't your cup of tea. I'm not trying to talk you into buying anything off of them after all, only making an observation on the way the company is treated imo.

To expand a bit on my comment of 'appreciating what they're trying to do for us', what I mean is the level of performance they're offering at the price they're offering them at. No doubt they're in business to make money, I've yet to find any non-profit audio companies selling gear. However what I like is that instead of taking a snap shot of the current market and saying, "ok we can sell these (amps, speakers, subwoofers, processors, etc...) for X amount of dollars, because that's how much our competitors are selling similarly constructed products for". Instead they come in under most of their competitors prices, without sacrificing quality (hopefully) or any of the bells and whitles most customers are after. Sure that's a gimmick, a way to separate yourself and pull in a customer base. Still, its a gimmick I'm all for.

Once upon a time Axiom was just starting out, selling a great product for less than their competitors were/are. Now that al that water has passed under the bridge they are respected for doing so. I guess perhaps in time, if Emotiva can start delivering on promises made, keep up on demand (I really can't fault them for growing. I've always heard it said in business you eithe grow to meet customer demand or die trying) and stay the course instead of upping prices, then maybe we'll have another 'Axiomite-like' audio company from which to purchase from.

Just to be clear it’s not only that Emo is a fairly new player, I also just a bad vibe about it’s ownership and how the company is run like I did with AV123. I’m not averse to trying something new all the time I just try to weigh all the factors.

I really want to like Emo, BTW. I was willing to seriously consider their XPA-3 to run my front 3 M80s. However, after upgrading to the Onkyo 3007 I’ve found that isn’t a priority. And based on my overall risk aversion I’m leaning toward monoblocks since if one goes out you just replace it. Or if one of the three up front goes out I could just swap the center back over to the receiver until the replacement arrives.

Don’t think Axiom doesn’t get my same trepidation when it comes to amp. I would love to try one of Axioms amps but they cost a lot, and I’m generally more inclined to go with a long time amp maker and monos again for the risk aversion and again the price.

When it comes to new companies I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pool when it comes to anything plugged into an electrical outlet. Especially small vendors where I feel they are at a higher risk in the long run to stay in business.

I also find it quite strange that small young companies can offer electronics at such lower price points over well established, large scale companies/corporations with massive r&d and established overseas factories with (increasing) economies of scale in production.

I realize Emotiva OEM for different companies but so do most of their competitors. So I do understand the "trickle down" economics involved and how it benefits them. Still, it just doesn't make any sense to me their price points and I feel they must be cutting corners somewhere.

Not to discredit their products or peoples enjoyment of their products but IMO there is something about their business model that just doesn't sit well with me.