Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Denon 3802/3803 owners (I NEED SOME INPUT)

For anyone who uses one of these receivers, could you please tell me if you have ever driven some 'difficult' speakers with them and to what degree of success?
By difficult here i mean any 6 ohm or less speaker (which i guess would certainly include the M80s) and preferably a speaker that has a lesser rated efficiency (say around 90dB w m).

The reason i'm asking is based on my earlier post about speaker auditions. A friend has decided and bought the Tannoy Saturn 6s and we are having some issues with distortion/clipping starting in at relatively low volumes on the Denon (as low as -20 on the volume scale and ALWAYS by about +4).

I would like to know if anyone else has driven less efficient, heavier load speakers with more success than what we are encountering.
We tested out his Denon with my Axioms a week ago and they were powered just beautifully but unfortunately, as nice as the Saturns sound, the volume levels obtained prior to clipping are ALOT less than either of us expected.
I'm trying to get an independent amp from another friend for testing later today but our question basically comes back to this:
Should he buy the bigger Saturn 8s or another (more efficient) speaker altogether?

Any input from those who have used the Denon receivers would be appreciated.

I have had my 3803 clip off to the protection circuit once before with my M60's, VP150 and QS8's. I am not sure what volume setting I was at, but I believe it was around 0.

I am not sure I understand the whole ohm rating efficiency issue anyway. You mention driving difficult speakers at the same time as saying a lower ohm rating. I thought a lower ohm rating meant "less" resistance. So I have never quite understood why less resistance would be more difficult for an amp, common sense would dictate that it would be less work on an amp, but clearly I am missing something here.

I also thought that the M80's were supposed to be very efficient, hence the 4ohm rating. I would also like to know what you find out, and hopefully understand speaker ohm ratings and their effect on an amp better.

Dustyn, your accounting of the volume around "0" for clipping with your setup is quite helpful, thank you.

As for ohm and efficiency, short answer:
The lower the ohm rating, the higher a speaker load on power requirements, the more robust the amp needs to be. A lower ohm rating usually equates to having to buy/spend a bit more to be sure your amp is capable of driving the speaker.

The higher the efficiency, the more sound volume the speaker will produce at a lesser power level. Typically the smaller the speaker (such as bookshelves) are less efficient than larger speakers. This is why the M80s are more efficient. However the M80s also houses a fair number of drivers which is most likely why it gets its 4 ohm rating.

Again this is the short answer. Alan or others may have a more in depth description. I'm a bit short on time today, sorry.

Keep those thoughts coming though. Please report the volume for clipping on the Denon, speakers hooked up and other pertinent info.
thanks

I'm running the similar albeit, less powerfull Denon 2803 (90 W vrs 110 @ 8 ohm's I believe) and have never had a problem with clipping or having the protection circuit kick in. Then again, the Db level from the M60's at a "0" level on the receiver's volumn control would seem to be WAY TOO LOUD (for me anyway). It does bring up an interresting question though, can anyone please explain why a receiver displays the volumn level as -nn Db and an SPL meter @ approximately 1 meter from a speaker measures something entirely different? Exanole: With the receiver set at -30 Db, an SPL meter at a distance of approx. 1 meter from an M60 indicates ~ 60 Db???

Audiobob,
If your ears can stand it for 5 seconds, i would love to know what dB you are getting from your M60s at the "0" level on your Denon at about the 8' and 13' distance if possible.

As for your question, the efficiency rating of a speaker is measured as dB at 1 meter distance with 1W of power into the unit.
Hence, the M60s are 93 dB/ W/ m.
With that out of the way, why does the receiver then list some obscure value in dB that does not really relate to the sound as a true measured value?
I have no clue.
Perhaps when Alan returns he can explain this interesting notation that these companies have for their volume measures. At least on my Onkyo there is an 'absolute' setting which essentially gives me a value of power as a percentage of the max (e.g. 0-100%).