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#310307 - 06/14/10 01:44 AM HDMI output problem with 3310 and Panasonic plasma
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
I have a 3310 connected via HDMI to the DVI input on my Panasonic 480p display. My sources are a Tivo S3 and PS3 phat, both connected via HDMI. If I use a 10' HDMI cable from the 3310 to the display, no issues. When I use a long cable (actually a 50' and 35' connected together), the screen flickers and doesn't sync.

Things I tried that did not work:
1) Force the Tivo output to 480p, rather than set it to Native.
2) Use different combinations of 50' and 35' cables, since I have 2 of each. None of the 4 combinations work.
3) Added an HDMI switch to see if that had some kind of amplifier to increase the signal at the plasma input. I tried this both at the plasma and the intersection of the 50' and 35' cables.
4) Try my HDMI sources on different HDMI inputs of the 3310. I've read that some have had luck because the signal path may be shorter on the lower inputs. No luck.

Now I know some may argue that the cable is too long. HOWEVER, I used the same cable (50' + 35') and moved it from the output of the 3310 and plugged it into the output of the PS3. Guess what, it worked. That tells me that the problem is related to the 3310.

Any ideas?

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#310320 - 06/14/10 08:30 AM Re: HDMI output problem with 3310 and Panasonic plasma [Re: oldskoolboarder]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4116
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Update your 3310 to the latest firmware if you don't have it already. There also might be an underlying issue with the 3310 regarding DVI to HDMI.

Maybe try unplugging the Tivo and the T.V from the electrical outlet, wait a minute, re-connect everything and try again and see if it will sync.
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#310323 - 06/14/10 08:49 AM Re: HDMI output problem with 3310 and Panasonic plasma [Re: BlueJays1]
alan Offline

connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3265
Loc: Toronto/New York/parry Sound
Hi oldskool,

Apart from Dr. House's suggestion, I don't think there is any way to "fix" the Denon 3310. While HDMI output and input level standards are loosely adhered to, there is a considerable variation from one component to the next.

In your case, I suspect the Playstation 3 simply has a more robust HDMI output signal than the Denon, which is why the long cables worked with the PS3. On that note, the cables ARE very long. An engineer I worked with who was formerly with Axiom noted that once HDMI cables exceed about 30 feet in length, you're going to run into weak signal/intermittent problems. And he sat on the manufacturers' HDMI committee who set standards.

You can buy HDMI boosters but they're expensive.

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)

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#310332 - 06/14/10 09:51 AM Re: HDMI output problem with 3310 and Panasonic plasma [Re: alan]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4116
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
The only other solution I can think of is to eliminate the Denon from the video chain all together. Simply connect the Tivo S3 to the Panasonic TV.
_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#310340 - 06/14/10 11:26 AM Re: HDMI output problem with 3310 and Panasonic plasma [Re: BlueJays1]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3466
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Blue Jeans Cable does make their Series-1 Belden bonded-pair HDMI cable in 80+ foot lengths. It shouldn't have any trouble keeping a signal in spec over that distance.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm
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Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris

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#310382 - 06/14/10 08:49 PM Re: HDMI output problem with 3310 and Panasonic plasma [Re: ClubNeon]
axiomoholic Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/20/10
Posts: 110
I also use a blue jeans long cable and can attest to its quality.

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#310393 - 06/14/10 10:13 PM Re: HDMI output problem with 3310 and Panasonic plasma [Re: axiomoholic]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4116
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Yes, the BJC Belden Series 1 is a superb HDMI/DVI cable over long distances. Excellent build quality as well. Do note the cable is very stiff and lacks flexbility when managing the run to your equipment.
_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#310394 - 06/14/10 10:15 PM Re: HDMI output problem with 3310 and Panasonic plasma [Re: oldskoolboarder]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10629
Cesar, there are three factors involved in HDMI transmission: the voltage output from the sending device; the loss in the connecting cable; the sensitivity of the receiving device. The output is supposed to be 5V, but as Alan points out, this varies. From your description, it does appear that low output from the 3310 is the problem, since the cables work directly out of the PS3(incidentally, 85' is pretty good; what are the cable brands and gauges?). The cable Chris mentions may have even lower losses which might be enough to do the job, but it does run over $200. An "extender" such as this one might boost the signal enough to overcome the 3310 in the circuit.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#310444 - 06/15/10 01:45 PM Re: HDMI output problem with 3310 and Panasonic plasma [Re: JohnK]
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
All of these are newly installed in wall cables, all from BJC.

Fortunately, it's a temporary problem. The garage (where I patched the 2 HDMI cables together) is really where the 3310 will finally be. But I wired my house such that I could put my AVR in both places, depending on what would work and how much time I had to unpack and rebuild my HT.

For now, I only watch the Tivo (just finishing up the entire 24 season to the finale, wow) so it's working directly connected to the plasma and I just have an optical cable to the 3310. I'm going to try a cheapo passive amplifier and if it doesn't work, I'm only out a few bucks and I have another HDMI adpater.

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#310468 - 06/15/10 04:09 PM Re: HDMI output problem with 3310 and Panasonic plasma [Re: JohnK]
alan Offline

connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3265
Loc: Toronto/New York/parry Sound
JohnK,

If it works well, that HDMI extender would seem to be the solution for weak-signal HDMI problems and long cable runs. I had no idea these devices were so affordable.

Thanks for the link.

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)

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