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#310876 - 06/19/10 08:28 PM VP160 Concept Discussion
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 275
Following hot on the heels of the VP180 (which was the first Axiom loudspeaker I had the pleasure to work on) we have been noticing the subject of a "VP160" popping up in the VP180 thread. There are a number a good reasons that such a centre channel might make sense for us to look into, number one being that it would be an 8 ohm load which is an important consideration for some receivers. And naturally we don't want to deny those that can't drive a VP180 the opportunity to own a big centre channel!
The problem from an engineering standpoint is the driver complement of the M60 that the VP160 would have to match. Simply popping the M60 drivers into a horizontal cabinet would result in an asymmetrical driver layout which is bad news for a centre channel. So, we'd like your thoughts on what you'd like to see in a VP160. The early discussions I have had with Ian on the subject are pointing towards an VP180 driver complement in an M60 sized cabinet with only one midrange in the middle. I look forward to hearing your ideas!


#310877 - 06/19/10 09:16 PM Re: VP160 Concept Discussion [Re: Andrew]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13571
Loc: Iowa
The first thing that came to my mind after reading the title was to go with only one midrange in the center, to give you a WTMTW configuration following the similar pattern of the VP180. Maybe to compensate for only one midrange, could you go with a larger size midrange than a 5.25"?
Anthem AVM60 Outlaw 7700 Emotiva A500 Epson 5040UB

#310879 - 06/19/10 09:28 PM Re: VP160 Concept Discussion [Re: Andrew]
Ya_basta Offline

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4299
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
I'm not very knowledgeable but is it possible to side port a centre channel? I wish the 180 was designed this way, if possible, because it wouldn't require it to be positioned away from the wall, it's deep enough on it's own.

Not sure it's the feedback you're looking for, but it's really all I can offer \:\) .

Edited by wheelz999 (06/19/10 10:08 PM)
Edit Reason: Grammar error
The only reasonable argument for owning a gun is to protect yourself from the police.

#310881 - 06/19/10 09:45 PM Re: VP160 Concept Discussion [Re: Ya_basta]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13571
Loc: Iowa
You know Cam, I think that came up on one of our counsel calls, and I think for a center channel you make a very valid point. It is actually a good thing to have an arc from your left/center/right front soundstage, Alan has even mentioned this. Having rear ports on the center does indeed make this difficult, I think having them on the sides would be a great idea, however, there might be some design reason why Axiom didn't take this path.
Anthem AVM60 Outlaw 7700 Emotiva A500 Epson 5040UB

#310882 - 06/19/10 09:45 PM Re: VP160 Concept Discussion [Re: Andrew]
Vanorge Offline

Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 47
Loc: south coast metro CA. the OC
your quadpoles are very unique. following in the interesting desing of things, could you make work maybe.. one or two mids on the top. maybe giveing the center channel some vertical depth. maybe taper it upwards.

its most likely crazy and wouldn't work but just an idea. and it would be kinda cool. :0).. and how in the hell did you guys get the quads to work so well. they are amazing!! lol

only downside is you wouldn't be able to flip it around like the VP150

Edited by Vanorge (06/19/10 09:50 PM)

#310883 - 06/19/10 09:46 PM Re: VP160 Concept Discussion [Re: Ya_basta]
BlueJays1 Offline

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4116
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
With the driver complement of the M60 an interesting prototype to compare with the WTMTW is a WTMW with the midrange and tweeter vertically arranged and ported of course like the M60.

M60 owners should be very stoked! This is an awesome concept.

I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

#310885 - 06/19/10 10:08 PM Re: VP160 Concept Discussion [Re: BlueJays1]
bridgman Offline

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6059
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I had assumed the new BigAss center was going to be just like that, sort of a W(T^M)W. I would have been really happy with one of those, although of course I expect to be even happier with my VP180 if I can pry it loose from Purolator's "we only work on weekdays" hands ;\)

The side ports seem like a great idea. They would be a problem in a conventional TV stand so you wouldn't want to put them on all the center models, but anything too big for a TV stand would be fantastic with side ports. Placement instructions normally suggest that the center should be a bit closer to the wall than the mains, in order to give a consistent distance to the listener, which implies the center needs to be real cozy with the wall.

Edited by bridgman (06/19/10 10:10 PM)
M60ti/VP180/QS8/M2ti, SVS PC-Plus 20-39, EP500
M5HP, Sierra-1, M40ti
M3v4, VP100

#310886 - 06/19/10 10:20 PM Re: VP160 Concept Discussion [Re: Andrew]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10623
Andrew, as Randy comments, the configuration that you describe would most closely follow the VP180 pattern, with tweeters(of course a second tweeter would have to be added)inside the woofers and mid-range(s)in the middle. It wouldn't appear to be necessary to use a larger mid-range, since the M60 of course uses the single 5 1/4" mid-range now.

In line with the comment by Dr. House, over the years I've mentioned several times the possibility of using a W T/M W configuration(possibly using the 4" mid-range from the QS4s). Although the same drivers(no additional tweeter)could be used, unfortunately there wouldn't appear to be enough space on the M60 enclosure for the 5 1/4" midrange and the tweeter to be positioned vertically, even if the tweeter surround was partially cut away to allow closer spacing.

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.

#310900 - 06/20/10 01:43 AM Re: VP160 Concept Discussion [Re: JohnK]
tomtuttle Offline

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8488
Loc: Tacoma
I'm pretty much with JohnK on this - I really like the idea of a W T/M W configuration with the tweeter aligned above the midrange. To differentiate this new concept from the existing models, it might be good to experiment with this different form-factor. I know it is quite a departure from the narrow baffles we've come to know and love, and could consequently present some manufacturing challenges. Some people may appreciate a taller, squattier center rather than the impossibly long/low profile presented by the VP150 and VP180.

Until I saw that Andrew started this thread, I was sure it was going to be a thread where forum members espoused a concept that was ultimately not viable for Axiom. It's really great and surprising to see this kind of brainstorming on the forum.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

#310901 - 06/20/10 02:26 AM Re: VP160 Concept Discussion [Re: tomtuttle]
dakkon Offline

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1863
I have been bugging Brent for a new center channel for a few years now....

I might wind up upgrading to the vp-180 still thinking about it.

if the new vp-160 would use 2 7" woofers with 1 5.25" mid and the standard aluminum tweeter. That would be MY ideal center....

i know this would require sourcing new speakers, it wouldn't be an "off the shelf" speaker..

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