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Re: My HT evolution project.
fredk #312969 07/01/10 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: fredk
FYI, your spl meter won't be particularly accurate beyond about 2 KHz.

Cat, I didn't see it mentioned here, but the RS meter isn't accurate at lower frequencies either (there's no such thing as a "flat" mic, and certainly not the $5 one they put in there!).

There IS, however, a chart of adjustments out there. Somebody will know where...


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: My HT evolution project.
MarkSJohnson #312970 07/01/10 11:21 AM
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Thanks guys. The 1st one listed by Hansang seems to be what I need since I'm not looking to connect my computer to the AVR. It's too far away. The last one listed by him looks interesting also, with all of the demo disks.

Re: My HT evolution project.
CatBrat #313016 07/01/10 08:01 PM
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Man, libraries are getting viscous. It used to be that if you were late with a library book, you would get notices that you owed them a dollar per book, or something. But today, my sister spent 3 weeks in a hospital and nursing home with 2 library books overdue. She just got a letter from the library that they will sue her for $150 if she doesn't return them now.

Re: My HT evolution project.
CatBrat #313163 07/02/10 08:54 PM
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I ordered the

Rives Audio Test CD 2

The only Test CD Calibrated for the Radio Shack Analog SPL Meter, and now with Mapleshade Recordings.

for $26 mentioned here on page 38.

Re: My HT evolution project.
CatBrat #313185 07/03/10 02:15 AM
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I did the sub crawl thingie tonight and moved it to a place that is now my end table. Not too bad. Got rid if an old TV stand that I was using for an end table. I have somewhat even bass throughout my living room now at all seating positions. Also the floor area by my TV is open again like I like it. Gives the room an open and airy look.

Re: My HT evolution project.
CatBrat #313201 07/03/10 03:42 AM
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I've discovered that correct sub position is everything. The upper and mid bass that I've been missing seems to be there now.

I'm listening to Piano Jazz and I'm just mesmerized.

Pioneer Elite: with L/R/C set to Large and Sub set to Plus with bass tone set to -2 in stereo. X-curve set to flat. EQ set to on. Sound retriever set to on.

Re: My HT evolution project.
CatBrat #313493 07/06/10 05:32 PM
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I've been thinking about selling all of my Axiom speakers, except the EP350, and ordering the bookshelf M22 and VP150 in Cinnamon Beech and wall mounting them around my TV.

So far, the on-wall versions just don't live up to my expectations, but the bookshelf version did. It won't produce the look I want, but I'd rather have the SQ than the looks after living with the on-wall speakers for a while. I think probably my next action should be to purchase the wall mounting brackets, mount my M22's that I have and just see if I really like the difference, and can live with the look.

What's bothering me now is the brightness of female voices, I tried to tame this down by turning down that frequency in the AVR EQ, but then I just ended up with an unnatural sounding voice instead. This is after playing a CD that I really loved with the bookshelf M22's, but not at all with the on-wall M22's. There may be some other adjustment I could make, but honestly, I never had anywhere I wanted to adjust the bookshelf version.

Edit: Also, it isn't just me that is noticing this. Without me saying anything I got the same reaction from a visitor. She wanted me to turn it down a bit, because the frequency range with the female voices was bothering her ears.

Last edited by CatBrat; 07/06/10 05:49 PM.
Re: My HT evolution project.
CatBrat #313549 07/07/10 03:40 AM
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I hooked my old M22's back up and am doing some a/b comparison. It's almost funny. The bass that I was missing with the On-wall M22's is restored with the bookshelfs, but the highs aren't as high. (I ran seperate MCACC EQ for both and am switching appropriately.) So, I was wondering what both of them would sound like together wired in parallel. After running MCACC eq, I noticed that it set the L/R to almost flat, except a cut at 500 hz and a boost at 8k hz. where before it was widely adjusted.

It's like the bookcase carries the bottom 3/4th of the sound and the on-walls carry the top 3/4th of the sound.

Had an in-a-tunnel sound effect, but corrected by vertically aligning the speakers.

CD/DVDs I had audio difficulty with before being check out.

1) Police Certifiable Blu-Ray. Before was missing high and mid bass. Bass is now restored.
2) Indina Menzel, I Stand CD. Hurts ears with OW M22, sounds right with bookshelf M22. Together better, but still a little too bright on voices.
3) Serenity movie. Bass shaking and rattling noises restored in early scene where Serenity is entering atmosphere.

Going to look funny with all of these speakers, but it sure sounds better. Maybe I need on-wall M60 or M80. Ha ha.

Re: My HT evolution project.
CatBrat #313754 07/08/10 01:21 PM
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After thinking this one over, probably what I'm going to do will look a little awkward, but it's going to sound really good. Move the on-wall M22's up a bit to where the bottoms are about at the center of the TV, then mount the bookshelf M22's under them on the wall using Axiom's wall mounting brackets. Then later, when I have the money and I find a cheap VP150 v2, I'll replace the on-wall/in-wall VP100 with it and mount it on the wall under the TV.

I don't think I'll have to angle the on-wall M22's downward, but if later I do, then I'll make some sort of wedge bracket that will also grab the on-walls at the bottom to hold them in place.

Not exactly an elegant solution, but one that I think will sound very good.

Edit: The on-wall M22's supplies extra volume in cymbals. I noticed a big difference at that freq when doing a/b comparisions. Also, the system seems a little bass heavy at the moment. I'll probably have to find a way to tame it down a little. One thing I did was change the L/R/C from large to small and set the Xover at 80 hz. This helped quite a lot. MCACC was always setting the on-wall's to small, but it sets the bookshelf to large.

Last edited by CatBrat; 07/08/10 01:54 PM.
Re: My HT evolution project.
CatBrat #313896 07/09/10 05:18 PM
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The more I listen to this setup with both bookshelf and on-wall M22, the better I like it.

I just received the Rives Audio Test CD #2 that I ordered last week. I thought I'd copy a few lines from the instructions that it came with for anyone else that might be interested in this CD.

Instructions for Using the Test Tones (Tracks 1 through 62):

The Rives Audio Test CD is a unique and inexpensive way to determine room and speaker response. There are 2 sets of test tones. The first set is a flat response. The second set (tracks 32 through 62) is not linear and is designed to compensate for the non-linearity of the Radio Shack analog SPL meter. This meter is inexpensive and very reproducible. Together with the Rives Audio Test CD you can achieve good quality measurements. The following instructions are specific for the Radio Shack meter.

Placement of the meter: (Skipping)

Setting up the meter: (Skipping)

Playing and Recording Test Tones:

... A spreadsheet is available on the Rives Audio Web Site ...

Evaluating the Response:

Now that you have an accurate graph; you will likely see some peaks and valleys on your plot. The larger ones will be the problem areas that need to be further evaluated. If you have troughs at cross-over frequencies, this should not be too alarming. In most cases the human ear integrates between these troughs and does not perceive them as a loss. In addition to this, there is little that can be done about these troughs.

The peaks are generally the biggest concern. They will create an imbalance of the whole system, so it's important to tame them. In many cases the peak may not be perceived as the problem, but they frequently are. A good example is where someone says their midrange is unclear and muddy. It turns out the midrange has a flat response, but the bass has a large peak at 125 hz. This peak, caused by a room mode, has a slow decay time and is muddying up everything. It is perceived as a midrange problem, but in actuality it was a bass problem. Having a flat frequency response throughout the spectrum is the single most important factor in having a good sounding system.

Finding Pressure Zones in the Room: (Skipping)

Instructions for Tracks 63 through 70: (Skipping)

http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/TestCD.html

Dang it. After looking at the spreadsheet, it looks like I need the other Radio Shack meter, the one with the meter instead of the digital readout. I can probably make it work with the digital, though. Just need to use + or - from 80 DB reading at 4000 hz freq. (4000 hz freq according to the instructions and turn AVR up/down to get Zero on the meter at 80 db).

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