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#314144 - 07/11/10 04:37 PM For biamping M60s, crossover need to be removed?
DreamTheater Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 92
Loc: East Haven, CT
I read on this article that in order to truly biamp, passive crossovers in the speaker must first be removed. Is this true? Im not really using 2 amps, just the surround back outlets from my SR8002 to split the frequencies and send a little more juice as can be done according to manual. I figured since I had the wire and the posts on the M60, I'd give it a try. My tyro thinking was that when you used both posts, you skipped the crossover (the sub/mid-high one), but upon thinking and reading that article, its seems to me that the split signals still will go through that crossover. Any help on this would be appreciated, I'm sorry for my ignorance on this issue.
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#314154 - 07/11/10 05:17 PM Re: For biamping M60s, crossover need to be removed? [Re: DreamTheater]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3466
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
The article you read is correct. Not only do you have to remove the passive crossovers, you have to use amps with separate power supplies, and place active crossovers before those amps.

No matter how the receiver maker has it labeled, you're not bi-amping.
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Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
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#314157 - 07/11/10 05:18 PM Re: For biamping M60s, crossover need to be removed? [Re: DreamTheater]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Unless you want to go with an external active crossover, I do not think you want to bypass the internal crossover. The crossover does two things for you: sends the right signal to the right driver, smoothes the response of the speaker in the crossover region.
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#314158 - 07/11/10 05:20 PM Re: For biamping M60s, crossover need to be removed? [Re: fredk]
SirQuack Offline
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Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13571
Loc: Iowa
just plug it in normally and enjoy, stop worrying about Buyamping. smile
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#314161 - 07/11/10 05:26 PM Re: For biamping M60s, crossover need to be removed? [Re: fredk]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6880
Loc: It's all about the location.
Perhaps Chris, JohnK or another smarter-than-me guy can answer this....aside from an active crossover, is it possible to design a three-way passive crossover, but in two completely separate units?....say one part to the tweets and mids and the other part isolated for the woofer so that two amps could be used in bi-amp fashion. I guess this would be like having a two way speaker with a single crossover, and a woofer (in the same cabinet)with it's own low freq pass or something similar, and each having it's own amp supply.
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#314163 - 07/11/10 05:30 PM Re: For biamping M60s, crossover need to be removed? [Re: Adrian]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Sure. Some of the powered studio monitors have separate amps for the woofers and tweets. You would still need components to manage the signal in the crossover region.
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#314166 - 07/11/10 05:55 PM Re: For biamping M60s, crossover need to be removed? [Re: fredk]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3466
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
A passive crossover is just a pair of high-pass, and low-pass filters with similar slopes. It's not one device which sends the bass in one direction and the treble in the other. It's the full circuit network which gets the name, "crossover."

I think (never have looked inside) that with the way Axiom has the removable straps between the "bi-amp" posts that they have designed their network like you're asking, Adrian.

So it goes:

One input into the low-pass to the woofers.
The other input into a high-pass for the tweeters.
The other input also split into a band-pass for the mids, but the band-pass itself is a pair of high-pass and low-pass filters paired together.
_________________________
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris

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#314167 - 07/11/10 05:59 PM Re: For biamping M60s, crossover need to be removed? [Re: ClubNeon]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
If that is the case, should you not be able to properly bi-amp since you are not bypassing any of the crossover components in doing so?
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Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#314171 - 07/11/10 06:22 PM Re: For biamping M60s, crossover need to be removed? [Re: fredk]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3466
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
No, because the amp is still driving the full frequency range. The amp which is connected to the tweeters is still producing bass, then the crossover turns it to heat. So you end up using twice as much power to get to the same volume level.
_________________________
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris

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#314179 - 07/11/10 06:48 PM Re: For biamping M60s, crossover need to be removed? [Re: ClubNeon]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
OK, that makes sense. An active crossover would go before the amps.
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Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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