Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Dilema.... what would you do???

So a very, very good friend of mine just had his birthday yesterday. He sent me a picture of his loot. In that picture was a Bose Accustimas system. He was very proud that his wife had gotten him such a 'fancy' surround system. And while I wasn't there to see it, I'm sure his wife was also very proud to have given him the 'best system' money can buy. I mean there are lots and lots of men who fall for the sales jargon, so I'm sure it was easy to convince a woman (who generally don't know nearly as much about home audio than men) that the Bose was top of the line.

All I said was, "congratulations, that looks very nice". But its killing me that she went out and spent that much money on an inferior system for him. I feel obligated to let him know that for the money, they could do much better. Even if they don't buy Axioms, they can still do better than Bose. However, I hate to seem like a killjoy. He seems happy with them (although he hasn't hooked them up yet), and I'd hate to hurt her feelings by telling her that Bose aren't that great of a speaker.

So what I thought about doing was inviting them over with their new speakers to do an 'A/B' comparison. I'm just looking for a way to put it delicately without out right lying to them. So I thought I'd just say something like, "I've been curious as to how they stack up against my speakers". They've never been over to hear mine before, so perhaps without actually saying anything about how Bose perform, they could hear it for themselves and maybe ask about the Axioms.

Of course they might just like the Bose. And if that's the case, then more power to them. But what would you guys do in this situation, would you mention anything at all? I would hate myself if I just let him think he had a great speaker system, and then someday he came over to watch a movie at my place, noticed how much better the Axioms sound, and say he wished he would have known before the 30 day return policy had run out.

I would probably say nothing. He probably has his first "complete" surround system. To replace that with Axioms would definitely cost a lot more. I know because I was going to buy one of those Bose systems before I discovered Axiom. I know people that have the Bose, they are either retired or in a professional career and they are happy with them.

Edit: One other thing. In the recent past, when I have pointed out how much better Axioms were to Bose, they seemed to just ignore what I had just said, like I didn't know what I was talking about.

I would do nothing.

It's probably best to do nothing. But in that situation I probably couldn't resist inviting them over to hear my setup--within the next 30 days.

If I were you I would take actions based on my friend personality and how close I am with him! There are people that just don't accept any kind of disagreement and others do. Usually I don't get involved in other people business, because there are times that this will only get back at you. I think this is more of a Japanese culture thing so I guess that people from different countries think differently though. I have learned on the course of my life that even the best of your thoughts might be misinterpreted sometimes. After having bad experiences trying to help some people I try not to get involved in other people business. Although as being a true friend you should try to point your friend out on the right direction. What a dilemma... There was one time that one of my best friends girlfriend was hitting on me and I pretended that nothing was happening because he was DEEPLY in love with her, better saying totally blind. I knew that wasn't a saint and if I confronted her she would definitely neglect what she was doing and either way I would be in jeopardy because he would not believe me since she has been telling him lies about me. Sorry for writing this stuff, it has nothing to do with the subject... I better go to bed. Hope someone will help you out.

It's too late to say anything. I would do nothing.

Hey, any extra details you want to provide just go into J.P.'s file on you, so never feel they're wasted.

i think ichigo is correct, it completely depends on how close you are with this friend. The only people that i would interject like you are saying, are some of the guys i served with in the military. After the purchase has been made, that can be a sticky situation, especially when a wife is involved...... Also, you need to consider, that they have probably been exposed to 10's of millions of dollars of advertising, think about how often you see a bose commercial? Do you think you can make an argument against that much advertising, without offending anyone?

Oh the A/B comparison, that could be interoperated as snobbery as well.

Thats about all i got bro.

If he is a good friend of yours, he probably knows that HT is a hobby of yours. In that case he will ask you what you think. Then, if he's open to criticism (only you know that), I would tell him the truth without bashing what he already has. I would tell him that his is a decent system but unfortunately way overpriced by marketing for what it is and that if he is willing to spend that kind of money, that he would be better off with something else. I would then put together an Axiom system in the same price range of what he paid for Bose (probably between 2K/3K) and have him come over to listen to your system to give him an idea of what you are talking about.

Good luck.

That'd be a good way to make sure he gets a divorce...

Look, the guy's wife gave it to him. He's thrilled. Don't come between them like that.

Its not a dilemma. Don't say anything. Cognitive dissonance is very powerful and could possibly tarnish your friendship. If it wasn't a friend than its a bit different.

Just look at it in another perspective. If someone with a superior system to your Axioms put down your speakers and said to you, "you wasted your money". Its not a nice feeling.

Bose Acoustimass 6 is $700 and Bose Acoustimass 10 is $1000.

Yes, you're right, somehow it's cheaper than what I remember.

I would not say anything people get very mad when they realize they bought crap. Even if they return it, they still feel like crap. And they hate the person who told them they bought crap. Some people very few welcome input, these few know there is no such thing as the best. Everything is a compromise even if your super rich, they just want the best they can have. I have met such people here in both categories.

So unless you and this guy are like level 7 friends, on a scale from 10. Leave him be keep in mind, level 10 friendship means helping him hide a dead body. Level 5 means calling him for holidays if you remember. Level 6 means helping him move, level 7 means calling him at 3 am. When your bored and talking about stupid shit

So pick your level and know his type good luck

She's happy, he's happy, leave them be and let them enjoy the moment of ignorant bliss. If he get's curious later, speak truthfully. This 'hobby' is supposed to be fun. They are having fun now...

Leave it alone. If he asks for your opinion, tell him "Its a nice system, but with Bose you pay extra for the name".

If he's not terribly happy with the system he'll hear, "I can get better for the same money"

If he is very happy with the system he'll hear, "Bose has an awesome rep!"

Either way, you told him the truth and you did it in a way that won't offend.

snazzed

I tell my Dad that he could have done a lot better than Bose all the time and he looks at me like I'm crazy but we're family. His 601s are ok but the acoustimas are brutal. I can't even convince him to do 5.1 and money isn't the issue. They just think what they have is good enough.

No highs, no lows, must be blows! < Try that out. Good way to end a friendship!

Micah, it's a gift from his wife and they are both happy so I would let it be if I were you. If she had come to you for advice/opinions beforehand then that would be different. Depending on their personalities, I wouldn't necessarily push for an A/B comparison either, in case they take it the wrong way.

I don't see the point either. At some point we all just have to accept that we all have different tastes and have different interests. His obviously is not home audio/theatre.

However, maybe he doesn't consult you about it because he now has the Bose system now and doesn't want to rub it in your face. Your just the poor sap that still has to use those out-dated old boxes for speakers . . .

Let them enjoy it for a long while. After, if they go to your place and say "how nice!" then you can say that by being patient and shopping around, you can get pretty good stuff for less money.

Another vote for "leave it alone".

i think this is one of the VERY few threads, where almost everyone is of the same opinion....

why don't you offer to help him set them up, so at least you can help him with positioning? hell you could get him to feed you some BBQ and beer if your lucky

Yea, and don't forget to bring the calibration disc and the SPL meter.

Awesome suggestion Dakkon. Help him be happy with what he has. In time he will figure out there is better to be had, or not... As long as he is happy.

Well, I absolutely would never, not to my best friend nor worst enemy, ever say anything like, "awe you bought some crap speakers". I do have more couth than that. As I said in my post, when he sent me the picture all I said was 'the look very nice'. Now I have a policy to try as hard as I can not to lie to my good friends. But that wasn't a lie, they do look nice... I didn't say anything about the way they sound.

But here's where my dillema begins... I'm by no means a bible thumper, however I do firmly believe in the old biblical saying, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". So if I were 'ignorant' (ignorance being the absence of knowledge, where as stupidity is ignoring knowledge) about Bose and their misleading marketing, and had either bought some myself or had a set given to me... I feel like a true friend of mine would at least inform me about the misinformation Bose circulates in order to sell their products. Then leave the decission up to me once I was in the 'know'.

I'm not talking about ridiculing their speaker choice. I just have a desire to let them know, somehow, that they may have made their choice based on questionable information at best. Like I said, if they really do like the sound of Bose, as many people do, then I'd be very happy for them. My friend pulls down $250,000 dollars a year, so he could very easily afford Axioms or any other brand speaker for that matter. I just think they're both under the Bose spell where they don't think there is a competitor out there that can touch the sound quality of the Bose system.

So my idea was to have them over for a comparison and tell them that I was curious to know just how good the Bose system really was. During such a comparison I would never make comments such as, "wow, my Axioms really blow those little cube thingy's away don't they"!!! I would agree with you Dakkon, that would come off as rather pompus, and I wouldn't appreciate that sort of atmosphere either.

That's why if I were to have them over for such an event, I would leave any and all conclusions about the two speaker systems up to them to make. If they seemed to like the Bose then I would tell them that they did very well for themselves and congratulate them again on their purchase. But if after hearing the two systems they were to make comments like, "wow I never realized how much different movies/music sound over the Bose, it sounded a lot more natural over your speakers". Then I might explain that Bose speakers really color the sound of the audio signal, and if they prefered a more authentic sound reproduction, they might want to look into another speaker system. But even then I would never word it in such a way that I was looking down on the Bose. Because if they didn't trade it in on something else I wouldn't want them to feel I didn't like their surround sound set-up at their house. I guess it just comes down to me not liking the fact that I feel they've been duped.

I honestly wouldn't care at all if they did prefer the Bose over my speakers. I want them to be happy with what they have reguardless of which brand they own. Maybe I will just leave them alone about it since they do seem happy about the purchase and everything. I don't want to cause any hard feelings over something so silly.

the only problem i see with you having him over, is your providing the BBQ and Beer, rather than getting free BBQ and Beer.. Always go for the Free option!!!!!



let us know what you do decide to do, and how it goes, i know i would be interested...

Funny timing here. I visited a very good friend of mine and his wife this weekend. I had previously given them a pair of Axiom M3Tis and a JBL subwoofer after hearing their very unsatisfctory sound system. Last time I visited, he asked me to listen to his system after a home remodel. At first I thought it sounded OK, then deeper into a symphonic piece I shuddered because it sounded terrible. I told him something was wrong with his system. He blanched and then told me that what I had heard was his new Bose system but that he had left the Axioms in the bookshelf. I showed up this weekend with a TAmp, speaker cables ready to do a comparison. I did not properly appreciate the level of tension I had aroused in my friends. First, they were very concerned that if I unplugged something we would not be able to properly reconnect and they would be without sound. I assured them there was nothing to worry about, but they worried.

Oblivious to their discomfort I pressed on grabbed another CD player, hooked up the M3s without subwoofer and played the same disc in the M3 system as the Bose. They unanimously preferred the sound of the Bose system. Now, this was no blind test and I was very quick to agree with them in order to reduce the level of tension I had inadvertantly created.

Nevertheless, I must say that the Verve CD of the Getz Jobim Bosa Nova album sounded better through the $2,000 Bose Lifestyle system with a sub than the M3Tis played by a battery powered T-Amp without a sub. I was surprised, and truth be told, I would have said the Bose sounded better than the M3s even if they did not because I realized that I had trespassed some invisible line that all the other participants in this thread seem to be aware of.

Anyway, not everyone gets a kick out of resolving audio quality questions.

I agree with dakkon. There will be people that will interpret your action of trying to help inviting them to the A/B comparison as snobbery. I would not and would not be offended if you gave me the suggestion, but people are different in many ways and think differently too.

That's the same story of the guy that sees the most ugly girl in the world as being the most beautiful. If for him she is the most beautiful doesn't matter what other will tell him, because he has his mind already set up on that, so it that makes him happy let him be happy with what he got. Although I personally don't believe we should look for beauty as a major thing when going into a relationship I might add.

You could invite him over *JUST* to invite him over. W/o mentioning "hey, let's compare..." It will inevitably turn into a pissing contest - however slight.

I owned a Bose system. They serve their purpose because they are quite small. Yes, you can get much better sounding speakers, but sometimes, size and convenience do matter.

I've never really understood all the "BB - Bose Bashing" threads, if someone likes them, let them enjoy it. I'm glad to see this thread didn't turn into YABBT (yet another bose bashing thread)

And yes, there's no comparison between my M80's and the Bose system. On the other hand, M80's were much more expensive.

honestly i think the average age of people posting here is 25-40? so there aren't many of those 18yo know-it-all's like other forums. also i would venture to guess pretty much everyone that posts is in the same socioeconomic demographic.


On a side note, when i lived in New England, the HT store i would go to, one of the sales guys actually knew DR Bose back in the day, and one time asked him why he allowed his company to start selling lower quality products.. the reply he got from Dr Bose was "economics" as we all know money talks....


My Uncle has a Sony Bravia LCD that he SWEARS is the BEST TV avalible... i think most people are in agreement that the Pioneer Kuro Elite plasma IS the best, i've never said anything to him about it, just let it roll...

Well just to clarify, I don't believe this was a purchase made because they love the sound of a Bose surround sound system. I'm about 95% sure this was a name recognition purchase. I think his wife wanted to fill a void in the home, figured a nice surround sound system would fit the bill nicely, and Bose was the choice because she really didn't know anything else existed.
If this were a situation where I went over to my buddies house for the first time and saw that he had a Bose Accustimass system hooked up that he'd owned for years and was very satisfied with it, then there would be none of these feelings of concern in my thoughts. As of right now the surround sound is still in the box, and neither has formed an opinion one way or the other yet. This is where my feelings of being a friend are jumping in saying, "explain to them the difference... enlighten them so that at least they're making an informed decision". Of course I haven't yet, and probably won't. I was looking to see if that was what most here would do, or if I was wrong and should intervene. However it seems my initial reaction is pretty consistant with the rest of the group here. I guess I was just making sure I wasn't being a coward. It's true, it is hard to tell even good friends that they've made a bad choice. I suppose a lot of that has to do with it being a matter of personal opinion though. Who am I to say Bose are a bad choice?

I would like to see them use this experiment as the subject for an episode of 'What Would You Do"??? To see if anyone would speak up and say, "friends don't let friends buy Bose"!!!

Lol

I think the reason why people bash Bose is because they are terribly overrated and overpriced. It's not that they sound totally awful, but knowing someone, especially a friend, could have gotten a better quality speaker package for less money can make one cringe. But, I agree...if someone is satisfied with their purchase of a Bose system, let them enjoy it. It's not our right to bash their systems...to their face anyway.

If I asked you for advice and told you I was thinking of buying a Bose system I would expect you to tell me the unvarnished truth.

If I had already purchased the system I would expect at least 3 coats of varnish. Shiny. Smile like you mean it.

I am willing to bet she bought him the Bose because the speakers were small which SHE liked and to say anything more would be a bumpy road to go down. She will have to get used to the idea of speakers in a room then they can move on to bigger and better things.

I wouldn't say anything if a friend's wife bought him a Bose system to avoid any tension. I would pay my neighbour, Louie, 10 bucks to tell him his system gives the neighbourhood cats migraines.

Micah, I'm actually quite a bit more blunt in person than I am here when the topic of audio equipment comes up with friends and colleagues. I think that the approach you mentioned, i.e., claiming that you were interested in hearing the Bose equipment, would be appropriate.

I think if you're a true hobbyist you'll consider friendship secondary to getting the word out on Bose. If the direct approach is too daunting, dress up in black and steal the system. Deposit it in a river somewhere.

LOL CV gave you the best solution ever. From now on I will follow his suggestions whenever something like this comes up!

Ha ha, I hope I never actually have followers.

Now that's a scary thought.

I would do nothing, except add another 'm' to dilemma next time.

Or you could do it now!

John's friend: So, John, what do you think of my awesome new stack of Krell monoblocks?

John: What a waste of f****** money.

How'd you know that, Peter? It was just yesterday.

Well damn, I tried 'dilema' and 'dillema'... I guess the third time's the charm eh!

Peter has that crazy superhuman ability to see into the recent past.

Everytime I try to look back into the very recent past, I suddenly get overcome with deja vu.

About a year ago, I was wanting the Bose Acoustimass 10 until I went to a Nebraska Furniture Mart store where I inquired about them to a salesman an he led me over to a setup. Put in some music that I really didn't like, something with a heavy metal sound, and cranked it up.

My ears were crying for him to turn it back down, but I didn't say anything. It was just too raspy sounding. Finally when they turned the system off, they asked me how it sounded. I said that it didn't sound any better than my small Sony speakers. Their replay was "I've never heard that one before".

I would leave it alone as well. If he becomes more interested in audio, he will likely move up to a better system. Everyone has a first system and it is usually not that good. If he and his wife love the system long term, that is fine as well. The time to intervene would have been before purchases were made and only if you were consulted.

100% agreed

I wouldn't touch this one with a 10 foot pole, mainly because the wife bought it and they already have it. I try not to express my opinion unless I am asked before the purchase.

Example: My brother in-law decided he wanted a projection setup after I had mine all ready to go. He didn't really ask my opinion on anything other than what screen size he should use. He stumpled upon the Epson 8100 and bought that, which for his budget I probably would have recommended anyway. He did buy the cheapest screen he could find however and now it is starting to tear around the frame after about three months. He bought a cheapish BD player and is using RCA's to connect the audio out of that, into some computer speakers. He asked the other day why he's having problems with video/audio synch and didn't really have the heart to tell him, I just told him it's probably the player because it doesn't have a built in audio delay. He also commented on how my system looks better, but won't ask me to help him set his up.


He's happy though, so that is all that really matters.

Sometimes I find that people are too proud to ask questios, but they'll drop plenty of hints for you to "offer" your input/opinion.