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#314975 - 07/15/10 09:44 PM General opinions of lossless formats
DreamTheater Offline
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Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 92
Loc: East Haven, CT
So I am hard pressed to hear the "night and day" difference between old Dolby/DTS tracks and their lossless counterparts that many people claim. I have yet to get an educated, non biased reviews on it from others. Do you guys enjoy it, or find it relatively the same as the older codecs? Any references to particular scenes between DVD's and the Blu Ray counterparts also appreciated (that is assuming they didn't change anything in the mix other than giving you the bit for bit identical copy).
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#314985 - 07/15/10 10:28 PM Re: General opinions of lossless formats [Re: DreamTheater]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10634
Erik, the tests , blind and otherwise, run by Home Entertainment Magazine a couple years ago have been discussed here. You'll note that the difference compared with the higher-rate DD and DTS compressed tracks used in BluRay discs was essentially inaudible. This of course measures the capabilities of the formats themselves and doesn't necessarily mean that as applied on a specific disc there couldn't be an audible difference, including a difference(e.g., loudness level)which isn't due to the format.

The point is that the horrors of digital compression are grossly exaggerated in some quarters and can very closely approach audible transparency in some cases.
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#314993 - 07/15/10 11:11 PM Re: General opinions of lossless formats [Re: JohnK]
jakewash Offline
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Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10415
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I believe he might be looking for the difference from old standard DVD tracks to the new lossless tracks, not the new lossy tracks compared to the new HD tracks on a BR.
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#314994 - 07/15/10 11:16 PM Re: General opinions of lossless formats [Re: jakewash]
JohnK Offline
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Registered: 05/11/02
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Jay, the tests addressed that as well
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#314999 - 07/16/10 12:31 AM Re: General opinions of lossless formats [Re: JohnK]
jakewash Offline
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Registered: 12/26/03
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I guess I should have looked at them blush
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#315005 - 07/16/10 04:50 AM Re: General opinions of lossless formats [Re: DreamTheater]
grunt Offline
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Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Originally Posted By: DreamTheater
So I am hard pressed to hear the "night and day" difference between old Dolby/DTS tracks and their lossless counterparts that many people claim. I have yet to get an educated, non biased reviews on it from others. Do you guys enjoy it, or find it relatively the same as the older codecs? Any references to particular scenes between DVD's and the Blu Ray counterparts also appreciated (that is assuming they didn't change anything in the mix other than giving you the bit for bit identical copy).


I’m with you Eric. I find when I can tell any difference between it’s not the lossless codec but rather that the audio was re-mastered. I have noticed that more Blu-rays have DTS tracks which I have usually preferred to Dolby especially for music. I’ve found the same thing with SACDS vd standard ones.

In my apartment I did a test of 128bit, 192bit and 320bit mp3s against FLAC and the original CDs using my headphones and found that only with the 128 and 192 bit mp3s could I consistently tell the difference with the FLAC or original. With the 320bit I really couldn’t tell the difference. And had I not known I was randomly comparing different bit rates there is no way I would have detected any difference.
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#315006 - 07/16/10 06:11 AM Re: General opinions of lossless formats [Re: grunt]
MarkSJohnson Offline
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Registered: 09/27/04
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I honestly can't say that I've heard a difference.
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#315009 - 07/16/10 09:28 AM Re: General opinions of lossless formats [Re: grunt]
bdpf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Dean,
Have you done the same experiment with your speakers instead of the headphones? That's something that I have planned to do for a while but never got to it.
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#315016 - 07/16/10 11:26 AM Re: General opinions of lossless formats [Re: grunt]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1166
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
That's my experience as well Erik and Dean. Mostly depends on the source material. On the Live at Radio City (Dave M and Tim R) Blu-Ray I did a comparison of the new HD track and the 'standard' surround track. Switching back and forth through the audio menu of my PS3 I did prefer the HD format as the soundstage was just 'bigger' - seemed to extend beyond the walls of my HT. But then again this was not a blind level matched comparison so YMMV.

Cheers,
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#315017 - 07/16/10 11:30 AM Re: General opinions of lossless formats [Re: cb919]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
So in reality, if the studios would record properly we could all live in audiophile nirvana.

Well, except Bigweelz, who lives in a nirvana of his own making. grin
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