Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Suggested settings for VP-180/M80 setups?

I just hooked up my new VP-180 and M80's after previously having a VP-150/M60 setup. My receiver is a Denon 4810 and I was hoping somebody might have a similar setup so I can compare settings. As I read through the two different threads on the VP180, I found some conflicting information on how to set the crossovers and speaker size for the front soundstage. What I was thinking is, why don't people who have this same setup post what their individual settings are.

Receiver Type?
Crossover settings for M80's? VP-180?
Front: Large or Small?

Center: Large or Small?
This might help with some of the confusion somebody like myself has right now..LOL

After I ran Audyssey, it set my crossover at 200Hz for the front, 40Hz for the Center, 90Hz for the Surround and 100Hz for the Front Height Speakers. That just doesn't seem right based on what other people have posted. I am going to change the Front Crossover to 40 and see what happens. Would that make the most sense?

Thanks.

your settings make sense.

The 200Hz for the front speakers does not make sense especially when it set the center at 40Hz. I would rerun Audyssey.

I have changed the front three to 40hz, left them as "small" and actually turned up each channel 10 levels higher than Audyssey had them set. We are watching Avatar to test each setting and so far it sounds pretty good...

Your original settings after running the auto setup don't seem to make sense with the 200hz setting for your mains. If you are not getting proper readings with calibration gosh knows what it did with the equalization settings being accurate. You might want to try listening to the system with your current XO points with audyssey turned off and see if it sounds better or worse.

Jeff, the 200Hz result is so far off(the others seem to be appropriate)that it raises the question as to whether the bass drivers aren't operating(among other things, make sure that the connecting strips on the speaker terminals are tight)or that the speakers are in a bass null area. Check connections(including for correct polarity), actual operation of drivers and/or change speaker positioning. Re-run Audyssey.

I just checked the connections in the back and they appeared to be tight.

What would be a good way of testing the bass drivers?

If I am going to re-run audyssey, I will do so in the morning since I have already put everything away.

Okay, other possibilities include loose internal speaker wiring and M80s wired with reverse polarity. Run M80s alone(no sub, full-range)with bass-heavy music or bass frequency test tones to see if drivers can be seen(and heard)to move.

If the 200Hz result is measured again, Audyssey has detected something wrong(especially in comparison with the VP-180)and this should be corrected, not ignored by turning Audyssey off.

Stick yer ear up against them when you're playing something. You'll be able to tell.

I was just looking at some of the settings and I noticed that the Denon 4810 has a "Speaker Impedance" option. It is set at 8 ohms, but only has an option for 6 ohms. Should that be changed to 6 ohms or leave it alone?

Not relevant to the crossover question, but the setting should remain at 8ohms, as the lower one simply reduces voltage(and as a result, power)available to the speakers.

Leave it at 8 ohms.

John - I turned off the subwoofer, set the speakers to large and popped in a cd with some good bass. The discovery wasn't pretty because the two bottom woofers are not working..:( I bought these used and unfortunately didn't notice it when I listened to them. These speakers were purchased from the original owner last July. I am going to email him and see if will help out some, but he probably won't....Guess that solves the mystery..

Yeah, Jeff; apparently what little bass you were hearing(and Audyssey was measuring)was the amount left after the 5 1/4" mids rolled off under 200Hz.

Now the question is, are both of them blown and will just replacing them fix it? Or perhaps something else internally is wrong...

The center channel is in good shape too.

I watched several scenes from Avatar and then the opening of Toy Story 2. When I did that, it sounded pretty good. Hopefully the rest of the system can clean up the slack until I can get this resolved...

Nice catch JohnK!

Oh, if they were blown, they'd be doing something entirely different. I would guess that the drivers are partially disconnected. Try taking out the woofers and checking those connections.

oh geez... How easy is it to pull them out?

Jeff I had the same thing happen to me with my main M80s and even though the binding posts were tight somehow they weren’t properly making contact. If you are using regular speaker wire pull it out and reconnect it. I’m not sure what it was but maybe for me the plastic washer got in the way. You may have the same problem.

Pulling the drivers out isn’t hard and I would try that next to see if there are any wires loose internally.

Jeff, in line with Dean's suggestion, if the speaker wire is now connected directly to the upper(mids/treble)terminal, connect it instead to the lower terminal to see if the bass appears and everything else disappears(if it's already connected to the lower terminal, then that ain't it).

Excellent suggestion John.

I’m curious if it turns out that switching the binding posts moves the problem to the other set of drivers would bi-wiring or bi-amping be possible solutions or would either one or both of those risk the receiver or speaker drivers? Just wondering in case Jeff can’t fix it in another way.

Premature wondering, Dean, but sure, bi-wiring would by-pass the faulty(??)connecting strips and might be the first instance in audio history where an actual audible benefit was found for bi-wiring.

I'd probably just wire from one terminal to the other, but I can't imagine the bridging straps being that defective. They'd have to alchemically transform into non-conducting matter.

Deleted not thinking when I posted

Yeah, Ken; you're right. To prevent an embarassing resort to bi-wiring, the one wire could simply be run through both the upper and lower terminal. But as you also say, it seems unlikely that the connecting strips are fatally defective.

Yeah, Dean, but if the low frequency section of the crossover is defective, no external changes in wiring can remedy that.

Edit: okay, you've realized that.

I just checked and the speaker wire is connected to the lower terminal on both speakers. Since one of the speakers works perfectly fine, I would think the issue might be inside the speaker. When I get back from church, I will probably try to pull the woofer out and see if a wire is loose.

Another thing I thought about doing is taking the speaker wire off of the banana plug and connecting it directly to the terminal. Not sure if that will work but it might be worth a shot.

I would try a bare wire connection as you suggest- it can't hurt to try.

Let us know what you find when you pull the drivers out. sounds like worst case scenario is you may need a new crossover. Have you been able to get in touch with the person who sold you the speakers?

good luck!

It seems strange for this to happen to BOTH fronts. I wonder if at some point, the original owner may have taken the bass drivers out, then wired them wrong when replacing them. It seems strange for BOTH fronts to have the SAME problem.

That's what I was thinking also Adrian, seems a little odd that the same drivers on two different speakers quit working.

hmmmm... good point- very strange indeed.

Oh, I got the impression it was on just one of the speakers.

Same here.

hmm maybe it is only one speaker... not sure why i thought 2

I think we may have a little miscommunication issue going on here, John ... would that be because our wires are crossed maybe?

If it were only ONE speaker, I'm sure the difference in DB levels of the two fronts would have been a give-away after running Audyssey.

You guys are less helpful when you're drinking.

It was just one of the speakers and both of the woofers were not working. The other M80 works just fine.

I will try the bare wire and see if that does make a difference. It does make me nervous to unscrew anything on those speakers in fear of not being able to put them back together correctly.

As far as getting in touch with the previous owner, he promptly responded to my email and said he would see if he could help out in any way.

Okay...I just tried everything I thought I could try:

-I unscrewed each woofer and slowly pulled it out. The wires seemed secure on both sides of each woofer

-I unscrewed the back panel and all the wires were secure there as well.

-Tried taking the banana plug off and running just the bare wire but the "washer" was blocking that from happening.

-Then I tried switching the connections from the bottom to the top on each speaker.

-Finally I switched the speakers around to see if the issue might have been in the speaker wire but it wasn't.

So I guess I am going to call Axiom tomorrow and see what they say. I am hoping since the speaker is barely a year old, they will help me out. Surprisingly, I think I might be able to fix it myself with a replacement part.. We shall see.

I guess now I just enjoy my setup minus the woofers in one speaker..lol

It certainly is odd that both woofers aren't working. It does tend to point towards the crossover. BTW, the washer is moveable.

I am hoping it is something that can fixed rather quickly and by me. "Call Axiom" is first on my list of things to do tomorrow..:)

Then they should be under warranty, I don't think you will have a problem at all.

Actually, the warranty is non-transferable, and, as he bought them used, they won't be covered.

Doh, missed on both accounts then. I didn't realize he bought them used, and didn't realize the warranty was non-transferable. I know many companies do it, but I never understood why a company wouldn't warranty something once it's changed owners. It's the same product within the same time period afterall.

I just posted a quick update in the VP180 thread...

I did talk to JC and the previous owner also called him. It sounds like they might work with me, not necessarily cover it, but help me out.

Ya but only because they would do less drinking if they were helpful. You ask for too much.

HTGEEK, did you get your speaker sorted out?

Actually, I haven't sent it in yet because I can't tell that something is wrong with it. I have a pretty good sub so that might be why. The other night we had some people over to watch a few movies and everybody was in awe about how good it sounded... Maybe I will send it off at some point, but right now things are sounding pretty darn good.

The 180 and M80's are probably been the best upgrade I have made in a long time.